Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Salinga, Dec 5, 2012.
And the memo was just twenty-seven pages of the word "HONOR!!!" typed over and over again.
Sometimes that is how it felt.
^ Y'know, I acknowledge that "Sins of the Father" is a landmark episode for its fleshing out of Klingon culture, and normally I really tend to dig "feuding great houses" type of SF/F (Dune, A Song of Ice and Fire, Feist's "Empire" trilogy) but the Klingon stuff on TNG was dealt with in such a shallow, uninteresting manner. I've never really cared for the Klingons. Not a single drop of subtlety to the race. As far as adversarial Trek races go, I find the Cardassians infinitely more interesting/watchable. I was rather dismayed when Worf was added to DS9, because while I for the most part like the character, he brought with him the baggage of tons more Klingon-centric episodes. I didn't mind them in small doses in the earlier seasons ("Blood Oath", "The House of Quark") but it just got out of hand in season 4 onwards. Just never felt that the Klingons meshed well with DS9, nor did Worf fit in as well with the DS9 crew as he did with the TNG crew.
I myself am not a fan of the TNG era klingons in any way. While I certainly enjoy seeing alien cultures do things in a different way, I have huge issues with TNG Klingons because every single one of them acts the same freaking way. SFDebris made a point about this in his Star Trek VI review that I would like to quote here, because I honestly can't say it any better or different than he would.
Remember Worf's son Alexander? In TNG, Worf would teach him that "A Klingon's honor is more important to him than his life", and even in DS9 tries to get Alexander to become a warrior even though he has little interest in doing so. It just paints everyone as one dimensional characters.
Yeah I have to agree about the Klingons. The Viking/Native American/ancient warrior stuff in TNG just never really interested me that much (and like the Kazon in VOY, almost made them seem too primitive to be building fleets of warships and flying around in space).
To me the more militant, Nazi-style Klingons of TOS were not only more believable but a lot more threatening as well. I would have loved to have delved more into their culture instead.
With a culture so focused on combat, it raised some interesting questions about the infrastructure of their society. Is every career viewed as "combat"?
Certainly the Klingon lawyer viewed the trial against Worf in DS9 as a battle. I wonder if the Klingon chef viewed his cooking as a glorious battle. Too much salt? No honor for him tonight. No songs will be sung of the chef who overseasoned his food.
Yesterday's Enterprise looks incredible.
Also, still a great story.
LOL this post is awesome. So true. How do those with less than glorious positions get into Sto-vo-kor?
It's been a while since I've seen Season 3, and tonight skipped two episodes (The Price and Vengeance Factor) so I can see two of my favorite episodes tonight for the first time in a long time back to back, The Enemy and The Defector. Man these two episodes kick all kinds of ass. Hell, it's because of these episodes where I got my username for this site.
I think I could watch Picard and Tomalak mince words all day and it would be entertaining. I just loved Stewart and Katsulas here, in a political showdown to prevent war. I love the fact that we got it not once, but twice, and they were 3 episodes apart.
One of my favorite episodes of the series and probably the best episode of the season was The Defector, but I noticed something I hadn't before. There are a lot of similarities between this episode and DS9's Duet. You had the enemy going with a different identity, making a decision to bring out the crimes of his race and make peace in the galaxy, and the whole confusion as to whether or not to believe the guy or not. It also ended with the Romulan (Or Cardassian) dying.
On a side note, I always smile at the scene where we get Picard's "If the cause is just and honorable..." the glorious score, and then the Klingons show up. The look on Tomalak's face is absolutely priceless.
As for the remastering, I love that we can finally see what's going on on the planet in The Enemy now. As for The Defector, I was really loving the stuff between the warbird and the scout ship at the beginning. CBS-D managed to make the Warbird even more menacing than it was and the remastering is absolutely staggering. I also notice this episode was written by Ron Moore. It's a shame time ran out for him to do a commentary track on it because this is an episode that deserves one.
I agree, the remaster work on The Enemy was really well done. I agree you could finally really see what was going on on the planet. I also really like the Defector. The shots of the scout being chased by the warbird are even better now. I also really liked seeing all the detail on the scout ship and on the Enterprise particularly the shot of the scout drifting over the Enterprise.
The reveal of the Klingon back-up at the end of The Defector was a fun twist at the end, but it hardly makes any sense.
So Picard can call someone up and ask for Birds-of-Prey whenever he wants, and they will covertly travel with him for days to the Romulan Neutral Zone? This was well before Picard carried any weight with the Klingons after overseeing Gowron's installation. At the end, Picard asks Worf to send the Klingons his compliments. Nice to know the Klingons are so generous.
Then when the trap is sprung, what kept the Klingons from taking matters into their own hands and attacking the Romulans? After all, Klingons have an innate hatred of Romulans. The Klingons were downgraded literally into tools.
It's one of those scenes where I don't care if it makes sense or not, it's just too cool not to enjoy. TNG is allowed some of those type of scenes every now and then.
Well even if they weren't best buds, the Federation and Klingons had been at peace for awhile by that point (they even had an officer exchange program, for god's sake), so I can see them coming to the other's aid when needed.
Plus I imagine the Klingons didn't need much convincing anyway to fly into the Neutral Zone and join in a possible war against the Romulans. They live for that stuff.
I have to say though, as good as the Defector is, it now seems painfully obvious from the outset that he was just being set up. Once you see how the Warbird was hanging back from the scout ship, you have a hard time buying pretty much anything the guy says.
Ok, this caught my eye while watching "Sarek" just now. Check out the woman's uniform behind Data. It's like some odd hybrid of the older and newer uniforms. It's got the collar of the newer ones, but also has the red stripe on the shoulders like the older ones. Hmm...
(Sorry for the crappy quality, can't take Blu-ray screencaps)
I always understood during TNG that the Federation and Klingons were Allies, as also stated by Gowron/Sisko BEFORE the war with the Kardies (Season 4 DS9).
So it makes sense that the Klingons would help.
The Federation and Klingon Empire were established as allies in "Heart of Glory".
Over the years they seemed to scavenge whatever they could from older uniforms. There's also another variant, one with the newer collar style but with the zip still running down the front instead of the back. I can't remember how often it shows up, but one definite example of it is Sam Lavelle's uniform.
Watched the 'Writers Room' extra last night, absolutely loved it. Despite the turmoil at the time, and the pressure that they seemed to be under they all seemed to have genuine affection for the series, and each other. TBH, I probably enjoyed this doc even more than the cast reunion last season.
Must admit, I'm loving the VAM on these sets. As if the vastly improved PQ and AQ wasn't reason enough to buy, these extras are superb.
Production design folks next isn't it? Can't wait to see what will be coming on the Seasons 5-7 sets.
Chances are that uniform is a test version made by the costume department while coming up with the new uniforms, and it got reused for extra because hey, who's ever going to be able to see it in any detail? You'd need some kind of super high-definition TV and VHS tape to see that.
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