Season SEVEN OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[Maxwell Everett]

Lucky my theater used the 4K projector (which now runs both ads and films) instead of the old advertiser they used before converting to digital cinemas. I would have been annoyed watching from a advertiser projector, seeing the scan lines on the screen.

Hmm, that's odd your theater would use the expensive 4K projector to run ads, burning precious time on the more expensive lamp. Trailers, sure... but ads? I guess it's ultimately up to the theater, but that sounds really, really unnecessary. You're very lucky you saw TNG that way, though! From what I understand that's unusual. Fathom usually only exhibits on the advertising projector, which can vary in quality from theater to theater -- at least that's the way it was in 2012. I know that Fathom was essentially bought by AMC, Cinemark and Regal right at the end of last year, so it has changed ownership. Maybe that means all showings now use the 2K or 4K cinema projectors.

My Season Two screening was plagued with technical issues (sound problems and delayed by over an hour) and looked very, very murky and dark. And this was at the AMC Burbank 16. It was relegated to one of their smaller screens. It was so underwhelming, I refused to see "The Best of Both Worlds" the following year. Which is a shame, as I probably looked forward to that the most.

 

[Indysolo]

My Season Two screening was plagued with technical issues (sound problems and delayed by over an hour) and looked very, very murky and dark. And this was at the AMC Burbank 16. It was relegated to one of their smaller screens. It was so underwhelming, I refused to see "The Best of Both Worlds" the following year. Which is a shame, as I probably looked forward to that the most.

That screening was a technical nightmare! It was also my last Fathom event. "The Cage" screening at the Burbank 16 wasn't much better, with all of the audio coming from the left front speaker.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

My Season Two screening was plagued with technical issues (sound problems and delayed by over an hour) and looked very, very murky and dark. And this was at the AMC Burbank 16. It was relegated to one of their smaller screens. It was so underwhelming, I refused to see "The Best of Both Worlds" the following year. Which is a shame, as I probably looked forward to that the most.

That screening was a technical nightmare! It was also my last Fathom event. "The Cage" screening at the Burbank 16 wasn't much better, with all of the audio coming from the left front speaker.

Ah, we suffered together then! At least they gave us free passes.

 

[TheSeeker]

I can't believe we are up to Season 7 already. It seems not long ago we were all pretty pessimistic about the chances of TNG in HD ever happening.

 

[jimbotron]

I can't believe we are up to Season 7 already. It seems not long ago we were all pretty pessimistic about the chances of TNG in HD ever happening.

That pessimism has moved on to DS9.

 

[TheSeeker]

No kidding.

So even though I have been buying all the season sets as they come out I am only up to Season two when it comes to watching so I have a question about bonus material. Has the footage of Riker and LaForge from the Start Trek Experience ride turned up on any of the season sets?

 

[trekker670]

No kidding.

So even though I have been buying all the season sets as they come out I am only up to Season two when it comes to watching so I have a question about bonus material. Has the footage of Riker and LaForge from the Start Trek Experience ride turned up on any of the season sets?

No, there haven't been any STTE related bonus features included with the TNG season sets, but there have been some in previous releases:

There was a special on STTE included with the TNG Movie boxed set though, which included footage from both of the rides and closing ceremony.

The Voyager DVD sets included special features on STTE as well. The Voyager season 1 Best Buy bonus disc had a feature about the original STTE ride. Season 7 included a feature on "Borg Invasion" in the standard set.

Most of these features (along with both fan-captured video and actual ride footage taken by past employees) are available on YouTube.

 

[Doug Otte]

Have you read the Roger Lay interview on Trekcore? He asserted that DS9 would be more difficult technically because from Season 4 onwards, most of the effects were CGI. I don't think he's right. Sure, they started using CGI for some things (wasn't the Defiant exclusively CGI?), but they reused a lot of previous practical shots (just like TNG).

He actually used the term "digital" not "CGI" but I assume he meant "CGI". Here's a quote: "...by Season 4 of DS9 you had digital elements, a lot of digital elements. By the Dominion War they were doing entire sequences that were digital, there were no models anymore." Is this correct?

 

[trekker670]

Have you read the Roger Lay interview on Trekcore? He asserted that DS9 would be more difficult technically because from Season 4 onwards, most of the effects were CGI. I don't think he's right.

I'm pretty sure he has a pretty good idea of what's going on with the project, the discussions that are happening within CBS, and what obstacles lie ahead in remastering DS9, if they choose to.

What he's saying here isn't anything we haven't heard before, first from fans familiar with how the various shows were produced, and subsequently by members of the current production.

Sure, they started using CGI for some things (wasn't the Defiant exclusively CGI?), but they reused a lot of previous practical shots (just like TNG).

No, the Defiant started out as a studio model. They used a combination of CG and model shots throughout the series.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Defiant_class#Design
http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=9903

He actually used the term "digital" not "CGI" but I assume he meant "CGI". Here's a quote: "...by Season 4 of DS9 you had digital elements, a lot of digital elements. By the Dominion War they were doing entire sequences that were digital, there were no models anymore." Is this correct?

CGI is, by definition, digital. It's "computer generated" so the files are all digitial in nature. Digital is a more generic term, meaning "involving or relating to the use of computer technology."

This is mostly correct. The big war sequences were pretty much exclusively CG given the large number of ships and complex shots required. That's not to say they didn't use models at all, but they were used pretty rarely, in comparison.

DS9 was almost exclusively the studio model, with the only exception being the very last shot of the last episode, where the camera pulls back from the promenade.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

CGI was used throughout the show, of course (the wormhole effect was created by Rhythm & Hughes, Odo's morphing was CGI, etc.) However, if we're talking about the exterior space scenes, according to Memory Alpha, the first DS9 episode to use extensive CGI was the Season 4 episode "Starship Down." It was the 79th episode:

The Defiant, the Jem'Hadar fighter, the atmospheric probe and the clouds were all created in a computer by VisionArt Design & Animation

The first ever episode to exclusively use CGI for its new shots was the Season 6 episode "Sacrifice of Angels." It was the 130th episode of DS9 (out of 176):

Being the first episode where the battle scenes were entirely done in CGI, the producers realized that this was a massive project for television and quickly decided to split the workload between Digital Muse and Foundation Imaging. The latter was tasked with digitizing the alien ships, while the former would handle those Federation ships that were not digitized yet. The animation of the battle itself was for the first half handled by Digital Muse; Foundation did the second half (with the USS Defiant breaking through the lines and the arrival of the Klingons).

 

[Ghostface1701]

Perhaps not extensive, but I always considered Explorers to be the first CGI heavy episode, but I might be overestimating how many shots of the lightship there were.

In any case, there was a substantial amount of CGI in DS9, some of which I'd be very excited to see upgraded.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

Perhaps not extensive, but I always considered Explorers to be the first CGI heavy episode, but I might be overestimating how many shots of the lightship there were.

According to the Deep Space Nine Companion, there were 12 shots of the lightship in "Explorers" (the ship also later appeared in "Accession"). ILM's John Knoll modeled, textured, animated, and rendered the shots himself between work on Star Trek: Generations and Mission: Impossible. I wonder if he still has the files? He also created elements for the updated Season Four title sequence.

 

[Doug Otte]

Thanks, everyone, for clarifying about the use of CGI in DS9.

 

[MakeshiftPython]

Lucky my theater used the 4K projector (which now runs both ads and films) instead of the old advertiser they used before converting to digital cinemas. I would have been annoyed watching from a advertiser projector, seeing the scan lines on the screen.

Hmm, that's odd your theater would use the expensive 4K projector to run ads, burning precious time on the more expensive lamp. Trailers, sure... but ads? I guess it's ultimately up to the theater, but that sounds really, really unnecessary. You're very lucky you saw TNG that way, though! From what I understand that's unusual. Fathom usually only exhibits on the advertising projector, which can vary in quality from theater to theater -- at least that's the way it was in 2012. I know that Fathom was essentially bought by AMC, Cinemark and Regal right at the end of last year, so it has changed ownership. Maybe that means all showings now use the 2K or 4K cinema projectors.

My Season Two screening was plagued with technical issues (sound problems and delayed by over an hour) and looked very, very murky and dark. And this was at the AMC Burbank 16. It was relegated to one of their smaller screens. It was so underwhelming, I refused to see "The Best of Both Worlds" the following year. Which is a shame, as I probably looked forward to that the most.

I'm not too sure my theater using the 4K projector for those specials, I only assume it because the image projected looks so much better than the old advertiser I used to see back in the 2000s. I noticed this change back in 2010 when the Regal chain in my area digitally converted two locations with Sony 4K projectors, maybe they also acquired better quality advertisers too. I'm only making assumptions.

I only saw the screenings for S2 and TBOBW, and experienced no technical issues. I actually did catch other Fathom Events that year with the TCM special airing classic films, catching TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD and THE BIRDS. There was one technical issue with the latter, but it was thankfully very brief (one second the screen goes blank, then the screen comes back with a brief display on the corner saying "1080i signal").

 

[Maxwell Everett]

Lucky my theater used the 4K projector (which now runs both ads and films) instead of the old advertiser they used before converting to digital cinemas. I would have been annoyed watching from a advertiser projector, seeing the scan lines on the screen.

Hmm, that's odd your theater would use the expensive 4K projector to run ads, burning precious time on the more expensive lamp. Trailers, sure... but ads? I guess it's ultimately up to the theater, but that sounds really, really unnecessary. You're very lucky you saw TNG that way, though! From what I understand that's unusual. Fathom usually only exhibits on the advertising projector, which can vary in quality from theater to theater -- at least that's the way it was in 2012. I know that Fathom was essentially bought by AMC, Cinemark and Regal right at the end of last year, so it has changed ownership. Maybe that means all showings now use the 2K or 4K cinema projectors.

My Season Two screening was plagued with technical issues (sound problems and delayed by over an hour) and looked very, very murky and dark. And this was at the AMC Burbank 16. It was relegated to one of their smaller screens. It was so underwhelming, I refused to see "The Best of Both Worlds" the following year. Which is a shame, as I probably looked forward to that the most.

I'm not too sure my theater using the 4K projector for those specials, I only assume it because the image projected looks so much better than the old advertiser I used to see back in the 2000s. I noticed this change back in 2010 when the Regal chain in my area digitally converted two locations with Sony 4K projectors, maybe they also acquired better quality advertisers too. I'm only making assumptions.

I only saw the screenings for S2 and TBOBW, and experienced no technical issues. I actually did catch other Fathom Events that year with the TCM special airing classic films, catching TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD and THE BIRDS. There was one technical issue with the latter, but it was thankfully very brief (one second the screen goes blank, then the screen comes back with a brief display on the corner saying "1080i signal").

Ah, okay... see that sounds more likely. Your theater probably acquired top of the line Christie 1080p projectors to handle the advertising and Fathom events. They can look pretty good, but they still lack the lumen output and vivid color of a 2K or 4K cinema projector. They'd probably look a whole lot better if the image wasn't being thrown so far and on such a big screen. In a home, on a ten foot screen, it would look outstanding. The fact that you saw "1080i signal" in the corner while watching Fathom's showing of THE BIRDS pretty much clinches it.

In our TNG screening, they had to reboot the satellite set top box several times that the content was playing off of. It even got reset right in the middle of "The Measure of a Man." The whole theater went dark right around the time the screening was scheduled to end, like it was on a timer or something. If I remember correctly, it was a Dish Network logo that appeared during boot up. Cue tons of laughter from the audience. "Can we change channels and see what's on HBO?"

Since it was essentially a satellite transmission, I could tell the bitrate was fairly low, probably half the quality of the Blu-rays. And the sound was not DTS-HD MA, of course. There were several moments during the screening when I wished I had stayed home and watched the episodes on my home projector, as I had gotten the S2 set from Best Buy a week early. My but certainly would have appreciated it. We were in that theater for damn near five hours!

 

[DarthPipes]

Looks like the All Good Things may be getting the standalone release:

trekmovie.com

Based on the discussions during the panel, they seemed to indicate that the 2-episode length series finale "All Good Things" will be the featured episode to get the stand-alone release treatment for S7. Specifically it was revealed it will get a new special commentary and that CBS planned in advance to give it special attention. Okuda noted…
Mike Okuda: By the seventh season of Next Generation at Paramount we were a well-oiled machine. But at the same time the CBS team is an even better well-oiled machine. So episodes that are fairly complicated, they are going "yeah, we can do that." So it is just a pleasure to see them tackle this work. The final episode of Next Generation "All Good Things" – which is a feature film in itself – they said "this is going to be a huge project, so we are going to start early on that one so we can get it right."

All Good Things has to be a standalone featured. I've waited for 20 years to get the episode as it was originally aired. The syndicated version is even more infuriating because they cut out one of the best parts, where Q admits the idea of giving Picard a helping hand was his idea.

 

[Tosk]

All Good Things has to be a standalone featured. I've waited for 20 years to get the episode as it was originally aired. The syndicated version is even more infuriating because they cut out one of the best parts, where Q admits the idea of giving Picard a helping hand was his idea.

Why did you wait so long? It's been on DVD for over a decade.

 

[MikeS]

Interesting point about AGT. I do hope they have those scenes on the box sets (it is so easy to add those to a Blu-ray) as I have refused to "double-dip" thus far.

 

[Tosk]

C'mon, All Good Things will be the proper "feature length" version in the season set for the same reason that Encounter at Farpoint was.

 

[MikeS]

I certainly hope so.