Poll Season 3 Federation

[Lord Garth]

The last thing I want is a situation where the Federation in the 32nd Century is like Braxton's or Daniels' time, Discovery is given a refit, the crew has new uniforms, and they just go on their merry way to new adventures. Cue TOS or TNG theme. That would be a deal breaker for me. End of story. I'm confident they won't do this.

If this really is to be The Future, when I hope all the previous versions of it we saw were just a possible future and not the "real" one. Just like how I hope the Picard Series, when it shows the "real" cusp of the 25th Century, isn't like the versions we saw in "All Good Things", "The Visitor", or "Endgame".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Yes, we know the V'draysh is an evil force

Actually, no, we don't.

For all we know, it's Craft's group who are the bad guys.

As for the Federation: I don't want it to fall or become evil. The only situation where I would want that, is if the Discovery crew find out what made the Federation that way and eventually return to their own time to fix.

Most of us don't want a utopia, but that doesn't mean they have to make it a DYStopia.

 

[JoeZhang]

We don't really know a lot from that short Trek for a couple of reasons:

* It was written for a different show-runner - it could have been the original plan was for the Discovery to actually be abandoned in the present and the crew to move forward using other means - that would fit with the 1000 years abandoned line without it needing to be the 43rd century.

* It could also be the case that the whole thing is an elaborate con (either always planned this way or at direction of new show-runner) and that the information provided by the ship to Craft is not all true. It would be pretty easy to retcon it so that the crew are pulling a long-con on Craft for reasons we don't know and they simply construct a backstory about it being there 1000 years as part of the con.

Even leaving all of that aside, it's easy to make it so that craft is brainwashed or simply wrong. Really there are lots and lots of options for the new showrunner to either disregard it or rework what we saw.

 

[dinzy]

Discovery in the Federation of the 32nd Century would be like someone from the 12th Century suddenly ending up in the United States of the 21st Century. And it would go just about as well.

The Discovery crew would be in custody. Every historian, sociologist, and anthropologist would be studying them or examining them. They'd be on display as an example of what "primitive" people were like. Or they'd be put through some rigorous reintegration program.

The Federation wouldn't be a friend to the crew. Or they'd be the worst kind of friend: the one who wants to "help". Discovery would be a Lab Rat who has to escape.

While I agree that there would be some kind of awkwardness like your second 2 points, I do not agree that the 1000 years in the future would be that much technologically different from the 23rd century. In universe there is already not much difference between the tech in TOS and TNG. Certainly not at the level we see between the roaring (19)20s and now. There is a hard limit to technology, and while most of the tech in Trek is magic-level bullshit, there isn't really much more to add outside of everyone being a Q. Half of being a Q is achieved by being connected to a network and being able to neurally control transporters and replicators.
The main difference between 1000 years in our past and today is how much physics we now understand. Back then it was close to zero. Now we know a large chunk of the basics. There is no quantum leap ahead of us. We might figure out some higher level order and unify some forces and that might get us fast space travel, but we are not going to get transporters, we are not going to get time travel and even computation will reach a maximum bit density beyond which we can't do any better.

Physics today is largely limited by time and energy. We can exploit lower energies after putting in a lot of time to engineer solutions. At higher energy, we can't make colliders big enough to really explore the physics that was at play early in the universe to discover what is there. Since new physics is harder and harder to uncover and is also more and more difficult to exploit in everyday lives, the rate of technological advancement must go from near 0, accelerate, hit a peak, then decelerate back to near 0.

 

[SolarisOne]

and it would raise the constant question of why they can't just send the crew home.

"Their removal from the 23rd century is what allowed us to be. They cannot be allowed to go home. Ever." Simple.

 

[Lord Garth]

While I agree that there would be some kind of awkwardness like your second 2 points, I do not agree that the 1000 years in the future would be that much technologically different from the 23rd century. In universe there is already not much difference between the tech in TOS and TNG. Certainly not at the level we see between the roaring (19)20s and now. There is a hard limit to technology, and while most of the tech in Trek is magic-level bullshit, there isn't really much more to add outside of everyone being a Q. Half of being a Q is achieved by being connected to a network and being able to neurally control transporters and replicators.

I've never liked how little of a difference there was between TOS and TNG's tech,

The main difference between 1000 years in our past and today is how much physics we now understand. Back then it was close to zero. Now we know a large chunk of the basics. There is no quantum leap ahead of us. We might figure out some higher level order and unify some forces and that might get us fast space travel, but we are not going to get transporters, we are not going to get time travel and even computation will reach a maximum bit density beyond which we can't do any better.

Physics today is largely limited by time and energy. We can exploit lower energies after putting in a lot of time to engineer solutions. At higher energy, we can't make colliders big enough to really explore the physics that was at play early in the universe to discover what is there. Since new physics is harder and harder to uncover and is also more and more difficult to exploit in everyday lives, the rate of technological advancement must go from near 0, accelerate, hit a peak, then decelerate back to near 0.

I don't disagree with anything you say here but if there isn't to be much of a difference in technology, or society, then they might as well have moved Discovery to the same era as the Picard Series. It gets them out of the 23rd Century and constantly butting up against TOS (thus no more complaints about "Canon!!!!") while still keeping things recognizable. I'd think the point going so much further out would be because it won't be recognizable.

 

[USS Triumphant]

You realize that's just a 200 year jump........

True, but I think the stabilizing effect will increase as we go, too.

 

[JoeZhang]

It's funny how everyone goes on about the future being so different as to be unfathomable - when in reality when we saw a time-ship of the 29th Century, unless someone told you it was from the 29th century it was the same as any other ship we've ever seen...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

"Their removal from the 23rd century is what allowed us to be. They cannot be allowed to go home. Ever."

Did the showrunners actually say that?

 

[Starflight]

I'd like the Alpha and Beta quadrants to be basically peaceful "utopian" Federation space. Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian and other (Gorn and whatever else) empires all long gone and their worlds now important members of the UFP.

It'd also be cool if, using future technology, the Federation had the ability to send exploratory ships to locations outside the Milky Way. Don't know what Discovery and its crew would do in this time period, since a millenium-old ship and temporally displaced crew probably wouldn't be much use at first, but still.

The only I really don't want to see is some cynical scenario where the Federation is destroyed or corrupt or space Nazis now. Would seriously piss me off. And if it turns out Borg have taken over the galaxy, I'm turning the TV off.

 

[The Butter Phantom]

I think the Federation will be like the First Order in Star Wars, and Discovery joins a team of rebels to fight them.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It could also be the case that the whole thing is an elaborate con (either always planned this way or at direction of new show-runner) and that the information provided by the ship to Craft is not all true. It would be pretty easy to retcon it so that the crew are pulling a long-con on Craft for reasons we don't know and they simply construct a backstory about it being there 1000 years as part of the con.

Zora could also be an unreliable narrator.

For that matter, so can Craft.

 

[eschaton]

Star Trek: Left Behind

About a century prior to Discovery's arrival, the Federation had some sort of technological singularity. Humanity and the other core races ascended into energy beings, uploaded themselves into subspace, or something of the sort. The Alpha and Beta quadrants are now largely empty, save for some luddite colonies and capricious Q-like entities who stayed behind. And a lot of inexplicable Clarketech wonders.

Edit: I have long thought the biggest mystery in Star Trek - almost their version of the Fermi Paradox - is where the "elder races" are. In a galaxy billions of years old some should have avoided extinction and formed civilizations which lasted eons. Yet we have basically never seen a large civilization more than a few thousand years ahead of Earth - either in tech or history. Such a setting would allow us to explore why it happens - why all the advanced races without fail die off or wander away into some other realm.

 

[JoseNoodles]

Evolution in the Star Trek works on Pokemon logic. Species keep

Star Trek: Left Behind

About a century prior to Discovery's arrival, the Federation had some sort of technological singularity. Humanity and the other core races ascended into energy beings, uploaded themselves into subspace, or something of the sort. The Alpha and Beta quadrants are now largely empty, save for some luddite colonies and capricious Q-like entities who stayed behind. And a lot of inexplicable Clarketech wonders.

Edit: I have long thought the biggest mystery in Star Trek - almost their version of the Fermi Paradox - is where the "elder races" are. In a galaxy billions of years old some should have avoided extinction and formed civilizations which lasted eons. Yet we have basically never seen a large civilization more than a few thousand years ahead of Earth - either in tech or history. Such a setting would allow us to explore why it happens - why all the advanced races without fail die off or wander away into some other realm.

Evolution in Star Trek works on Pokemon logic. Species advance through levels until they reach a certain level where they evolve into a new form, at which point they seemingly enter a different plane of reality imperceptible to "lesser" lifeforms. Most don't seem interested in making contact with other beings, unless for the occasional experiment.

 

[Vger23]

It's funny how everyone goes on about the future being so different as to be unfathomable - when in reality when we saw a time-ship of the 29th Century, unless someone told you it was from the 29th century it was the same as any other ship we've ever seen...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That why that was so stupid, though.

 

[SolarisOne]

Did the showrunners actually say that?

I was offering speculative in-universe justification on why a future Federation might prevent Disco from returning. Look at the post I was responding to, and you'll get it.

 

[USS Triumphant]

It's funny how everyone goes on about the future being so different as to be unfathomable - when in reality when we saw a time-ship of the 29th Century, unless someone told you it was from the 29th century it was the same as any other ship we've ever seen...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Next season sees Discovery operating entirely inside the future Klingon Empire, and because of their stagnant and recycled ship designs, we're never actually sure we're in the far future.

 

[JoseNoodles]

Well, if you looked closely, there were Vor'chas fighting the Sphere-Builders in the 26th century. There were also Novas, Prometheuses (Promethei?), and that fake Dauntless class.

 

[JoeZhang]

Might not even be a zora for all we know - could be a crewmembed

That why that was so stupid, though.

But but.. it's CANON!

Remember because of visual literalism - we MUST confirm to what has been seen before when moving to a future period. So the future has to be people sat around using touch-screen just like any other modern series.

 

[Lord Garth]

It's funny how everyone goes on about the future being so different as to be unfathomable - when in reality when we saw a time-ship of the 29th Century, unless someone told you it was from the 29th century it was the same as any other ship we've ever seen...

That why that was so stupid, though.

Well, if you looked closely, there were Vor'chas fighting the Sphere-Builders in the 26th century. There were also Novas, Prometheuses (Promethei?), and that fake Dauntless class.

Alex Kurtzman has to fix a lot of Rick Berman's nonsense.

Hopefully, like I said before, all that crap is just waved off as "It was a possible future." When it doubt, blame it on Gabrielle.