Spoilers Season 2 Trailer
- Thread starter Tuskin38
- Start date
I don't reject the idea, it wouldn't make sense for warp speeds to be stagnant for more than a century. Still have to admit that the change itself isn't "canon".
Or 'transwarp' just means beyond 'current' warp. Once the technology became standard, it was just called 'warp' and 'transwarp' became to mean technologies beyond it.
Or if we accept that the Excelsior tech failed, then it was newer shown to work in the first place. There was not some completely amazing super tech that worked just fine and then was abandoned and never mentioned again. Even whole classifying angle with the spore drive doesn't work. Discovery was pivotal to the war effort in the early war, there must have been a loads of people in Starfleet that knew about it.
Also, because the spore drive is so ludicrously effective, that it is possible at all is a problem. Even if they would somehow completely kill it (and lets face it, any event that would utterly alter the fabric of the entire multiverse would be pretty damn laughable even in the Trek scale of laughable plots) it would still have been possible to develop such tech for billions of years. Surely someone (or multiple someones, really) somewhere in the universe would have, way before the Feds? And because the tech would allow them to instantly travel anywhere, it would have spread pretty fast...
This is Star Trek. You really have to throw real world considerations out the window.
It would be best described as largely consistent with canon, I'd say. A best inference, if you will. For example, consistent with Encounter at Farpoint, Time Squared, Best of Both Worlds, Caretaker, Threshold. The false AGT future allows time for another readjustment so doesn't really upset the apple cart. The mere existence of the E-D also shows that future to be false. As for WNOHGB, the immediate follow-up dialogue makes clear that 'passing warp ten' creates a velocity that is 'off the scale'. As the scale of velocity is, well, numbers, to be off the scale is to be infinite. That wasn't true in TOS.
Unfortunately, such considerations do not always play out like in real life. As much as I am an advocate of treating characters like they are human, events don't bear up under such scrutiny. Otherwise, the Klingons would have continued on to develop the Genesis torpedo because as a weapon it was highly effective and suited to the Klingons goals. Same thing with the Guardian of Forever, transporters as a cure all, and on and on.
I get that Discovery will suffer under more scrutiny because of it being the newest, but it doesn't change the fact that Star Trek has done this before, will do it again, and is no more universe breaking than the last one. At least to my mind...
I get that Discovery will suffer under more scrutiny because of it being the newest, but it doesn't change the fact that Star Trek has done this before, will do it again, and is no more universe breaking than the last one. At least to my mind...
Enterprise suffered the same fate. Unjustly IMO.
So did the Abrams films. Again, completely unjustified in my opinion. It continues to frustrate me because it feels like there is no grace given to any thing in fandom any more.
I generally hate the 'super tech abandoned' trope, though Genesis torpedo is not such a big deal. It was made clear that it could never work as intended, and an ability to nuke an entire planet is not such a big deal in Trek setting. A single starship can kill all life on a planet already. Genesis was only a great deal for the Klingons while they thought they could use it to nuke a planet and still have a functioning planet fresh to be colonised afterwards.Unfortunately, such considerations do not always play out like in real life. As much as I am an advocate of treating characters like they are human, events don't bear up under such scrutiny. Otherwise, the Klingons would have continued on to develop the Genesis torpedo because as a weapon it was highly effective and suited to the Klingons goals. Same thing with the Guardian of Forever, transporters as a cure all, and on and on.
I get that Discovery will suffer under more scrutiny because of it being the newest, but it doesn't change the fact that Star Trek has done this before, will do it again, and is no more universe breaking than the last one. At least to my mind...
But yeah, you certainly can find similar examples (albeit I cannot think anything of this magnitude) in other series. It is just that (at leas to me) it is much easier to overlook such things in more episodic format, than in a serialised format where the said supertech is central to the entire premise of a whole season and interwoven is seismic historical event in the setting.
No, it was mostly shit completely irrespective of continuity issues.
Nah, those were shit too. Beyond was better, I don't know whether it was because Abrams was not involved.
Perhaps but I think the miraculous medical cure of the transporter sticks out far more egregiously than the spore tech, especially since it is dropped never to be heard from again. I mean, seriously, old age can be cured by the transporter? So, why are they not recording DNA of the crew at their peak health to keep them forever young? Never mind the phasing cloak as a tactical weapon that the Romulans were trying to develop, or saw perfected by the Federation, the cure for radiation poisoning that would have saved so many characters in the show, and on and on.
Unjustified. They did what TOS did only faster and with more money. The character arcs are my favorite to date with regarding Star Trek characters, and Abrams never deserved the level of vitriol received.
I'll go so far as to say this-give me more Kelvin that Discovery or Picard.
We just fundamentally disagree. And it is not vitriol to say that I don't like something. If we are talking about personal insults towards Abrams or something like that, then that's of course different; I have nothing against the guy as a person, even if he directed some shit films (and his Star Wars film was pretty good, failures to understand how space works not withstanding.)
Well, Discovery and Abrams films are about equally bad, albeit in different ways, but I'm more interested in seeing where the Discovery goes. Picard returning is possibly the best news ever, though of course it remains to be seen how the execution is.
No, I didn't say you said anything vitriolic towards Abrams. Just a general remark.
And, disagreement is fine.
Again, disagreement is fine. I would be fine with no more Picard ever.
I got a chuckle out of this because in the Genesis Wave books, it is that phasing cloak that protects Leah Brahams (in a EV suit designed to protect from radiation, no less) from an even more outrageous version of Genesis.
The books often played far more with implications than the shows ever did. My favorite TOS novel as a kid was a follow up story to "All our Yesterdays" where Spock goes back in time and becomes more primitive. He has to use the Guardian of Forever to rescue his son from an Ice Age in the past.
Tal shows up as do Starfleet Marines. Such a fun book.
Transwarp had a clear definition on Voyager. And it wasn't just "faster warp" but a completely different way of traversing space. And my headcanon has decided Excelsior would have been the same:
My assumption is (ignoring the obvious paradox) that both the Excelsior and Vengence projects where the result of the events of 'Regeneration' - or rather SF uses the Borg bits and info they found to reverse engineer a working TW drive. And it just took the Prime guys 25 (or whatever) years longer because they didn't have CumberKhan.
But they're not necessarily measured the same because their impact on space/time are different. The best analogy I can think of is how like altitude [temp] alters the sound barrier, [the difference in] "relativity" (for lack of a better word) alters the warp barrier. It's totally junk science, but my junk science isn't any more or less valid than someone else's. So basically warp 9.5 isn't the same as transwarp 9.5 because it isn't just a measurement of velocity but also of time over distance. HashtagTwelveParsecs.
And to the end, I never Styles's comments as nothing more than the frivolous tauntings of a total douchebag.
My assumption is (ignoring the obvious paradox) that both the Excelsior and Vengence projects where the result of the events of 'Regeneration' - or rather SF uses the Borg bits and info they found to reverse engineer a working TW drive. And it just took the Prime guys 25 (or whatever) years longer because they didn't have CumberKhan.
But they're not necessarily measured the same because their impact on space/time are different. The best analogy I can think of is how like altitude [temp] alters the sound barrier, [the difference in] "relativity" (for lack of a better word) alters the warp barrier. It's totally junk science, but my junk science isn't any more or less valid than someone else's. So basically warp 9.5 isn't the same as transwarp 9.5 because it isn't just a measurement of velocity but also of time over distance. HashtagTwelveParsecs.
And to the end, I never Styles's comments as nothing more than the frivolous tauntings of a total douchebag.
Happens all the time.
Especially with Styles.
Similar threads
