Scotty's characterization (Spoilers, duh!)

[Michael]

I'm not talking about making him the main source of comic relief – I rather liked that. That felt natural to the character, who was always on the light-hearted side of the argument.

I'm talking about making him – out of all the characters – the one who decides to not follow Kirk's orders and rather resign from his position. I don't know, but somehow that didn't really feel true to the character and how Scotty was portrayed on TOS.

Sure, I get it, this is a reimagined, rebooted version of Star Trek. Yet I can't help the feeling this isn't how Scotty should behave. He always felt more like the military type, who would never dream of disobeying Kirk's orders. If there was one guy you could always count on following Kirk's word, it was Scotty.

Yet now he's the one who leaves the ship (!), because he doesn't want to take part in Kirk's mission to find and kill Harrison?

Am I the only one who felt this wasn't the right decision by the writers?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

No, I loved it. Scotty's not the kind to follow illegal and immoral orders in any timeline.

 

[Michael]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

No, I loved it. Scotty's not the kind to follow illegal and immoral orders in any timeline.

Really? And yet he followed Kirk's illegal orders when stealing the Enterprise in Star Trek III. Or Spock's orders when illegally entering Klingon space in Star Trek VI. And that's just off the top of my head. Let's be honest here, Scotty was always following Kirk's orders. However questionable they must have seemed to him. And yet here he decides to disobey him. Why?

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

He doesn't yet have the unquestioning loyalty to Kirk that he had in those situations. In Into Darkness, he'd known him a year. In STIII, he'd known him for 15.

Even in those times, I don't think he would go along with Kirk's plan. What Scotty did in III was to help save Spock, in VI to save Kirk and McCoy. What he was asked to do in XII was to assist in an execution which by it's very nature would also likely lead to war with the Klingons.

 

[Michael]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

He doesn't yet have the unquestioning loyalty to Kirk that he had in those situations. In Into Darkness, he'd known him a year. In STIII, he'd known him for 15.

Even in those times, I don't think he would go along with Kirk's plan. What Scotty did in III was to help save Spock, in VI to save Kirk and McCoy. What he was asked to do in XII was to assist in an execution which by it's very nature would also likely lead to war with the Klingons.

Yeah, maybe you are right. I'm not saying it was an outright mistake by the writers. Just that it felt off to me.

You know, I appreciate the notion that there are people amoung Kirk's crew who wouldn't want to come along for this mission. That feels real and I like that they tried to include that. But at the same time I think it would have felt more natural for, say, Chekov to be the one to disobey. He's young and isn't as rigidly indoctrinated by the chain of command as Scotty ought to be.

I have the suspicion they opted for Scotty, because Pegg is the abler actor and because it has a greater impact on the story if the chief engineer leaves the ship.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

I'm more concerned about the fact that he has become the obvious comic relief.

 

[Pindar]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

I'm more concerned about the fact that he has become the obvious comic relief.

I thought there was much less of that in this film.

His best scene was when he was in his civvies though.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

I took it, that he wouldn't stand for being the responsible officer for allowing unknown, possible illegal weapons of mass destruction aboard his ships.

He would be the one signing off on the papers for receiving them and putting them into commission.

Though Kirk should have told him then and there that he doesn't intend on using them contrary to Admiral Marcus orders.

And in the end it was a bit of a plot device for both discovering the other ship and getting him out of the way to make the sabotage work.

If he had been on board, he would most likely have been able to fix the engine in one hour instead of 2 days.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

You know, I appreciate the notion that there are people amoung Kirk's crew who wouldn't want to come along for this mission. That feels real and I like that they tried to include that. But at the same time I think it would have felt more natural for, say, Chekov to be the one to disobey. He's young and isn't as rigidly indoctrinated by the chain of command as Scotty ought to be.

What about Scotty's character in the previous film gave you the impression that he was "rigidly indoctrinated by the chain of command"? His testing of dangerous and unproven equipment on a famous admiral's prized pet? His exile to a frozen wasteland? His assistance of a fellow Starfleet exile to get back to the ship he was kicked off of, no questions asked about the reason he was stranded there? His refusal to immediately answer Spock's question about how they got aboard the Enterprise despite Spock's superior rank? His colorful responses to commands from superior officers or bragging about his transporter prowess in their presence?

Seems to me that refusing to obey an order that's immoral in his opinion or could endanger his beloved ship and her crew for the wrong reasons is right up Scotty's alley, in either universe. He was never afraid to go against orders to do what he felt was the right thing, as in the previously mentioned sabotaging the Excelsior and stealing the Enterprise to retrieve Spock or sneaking in to Klingon space to rescue Kirk and McCoy from Rura Penthe examples. Even the most innocuous and endearing aspects of his traditional behavior exhibit his unconventional nature: his multiplied by a factor of four repair estimates, for example. Someone who was rigidly adherent to the chain of command wouldn't deliberately mislead them about how long he thought it would take to fix something; not even jokingly. Or his choice to fight the Klingons on K7 against Kirk's orders not after they'd insulted the Captain (which he ordered Chekov to not respond to), but after they'd insulted his ship.

 

[Commishsleer]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

TOS Scotty may have signed it because he knew and trusted Kirk.

nuScotty doesn't really know Kirk as well and he probably has reason not to trust him implicitly and vice-versa.

 

[Roshi]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

Scotty made the right call regarding the warheads. He had a moral dilemma and acted consequently.
His characterization is spot on.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

What's Scotty doing calling Kirk "Jim"? I can't ever remember Scotty calling him anything other than "Cap'n".

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

What's Scotty doing calling Kirk "Jim"? I can't ever remember Scotty calling him anything other than "Cap'n".

"Jim" = "If I can't convice you as chief engineer of this ship let me beg you as a friend not to do this!"

 

[beamMe]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

What's Scotty doing calling Kirk "Jim"? I can't ever remember Scotty calling him anything other than "Cap'n".

That was a different Scotty.

 

[Jon1701]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

What's Scotty doing calling Kirk "Jim"? I can't ever remember Scotty calling him anything other than "Cap'n".

He doesn't say it often but he does say it occasionally in TOS.

I think he says it in Wolf in the Fold but I'll dig around in the back of my mind somewhere and get back to you...

 

[Jon1701]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

Its Mirror Mirror.

It's possibly the only time he says it now that I think about it.

 

[Mal]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

What about Scotty's character in the previous film gave you the impression that he was "rigidly indoctrinated by the chain of command"? His testing of dangerous and unproven equipment on a famous admiral's prized pet? His exile to a frozen wasteland? His assistance of a fellow Starfleet exile to get back to the ship he was kicked off of, no questions asked about the reason he was stranded there? His refusal to immediately answer Spock's question about how they got aboard the Enterprise despite Spock's superior rank?

Came here to say this exactly. Glad to see someone was paying attention

 

[Franklin]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

Wasn't Scotty also mad that he was not being told what was in the torpedoes? He's concerned for the safety of the Enterprise. What if they contained something dangerous or unstable? What if the fuses or whatever were unreliable? After all, in either universe, Scotty knows the Enterprise is really his ship, and he just lets Kirk drive it. He can't let Kirk blindly endanger his ship. That probably angers him more than anything. Kirk is being very irresponsible and too trusting. An older and wiser Kirk would've stood behind Scotty, at least on insisting that the topedoes be scanned before accepting them.

 

[Flake]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

I thought it was absolutely right what Scotty did. At this point I was having serious issues with Kirk being a Jerk so someone had to make a stand and make him see he is in the wrong about the torpedoes and their purpose.

It continues to sow the seeds of doubt in Kirks mind and he eventually makes the right decision.

 

[anotherdemon]

Re: Scotty's Mischaracterization (Spoilers, duh!)

I like how he was the hero of the story.