Scotty & Worf Squaring Off

[Mojochi]

I do know it was mostly meant to be a light-hearted comedy sight gag, how Scotty would be put off by a Klingon serving on the Enterprise, but in hindsight, I really wish they hadn't done it, at least not that bit at the end. It can be interpreted as kind of prejudiced, & while I'm sure, at 1st, it might surprise or shock Scotty, I'd imagine that by the end, he'd be just fine with it. Scotty is no bigot imho, & Worf is a pretty fair & decent guy once you get past the introduction.

Frankly, Scotty didn't really win points with any of the crew. He butt heads with Geordi until they worked it out. His comment about "Prettier doctors" to Crusher was pretty sexist &/or creepy, & while Troi gave him a hug at the end, he never really got shown with her at all, despite the fact that he clearly needed someone to help him out with his retirement funk (Who better than the ship's counselor?) In fact, WTF is Troi doing? This is exactly the kind of person who needs her help, just like the cryo-peeps they found in The Neutral Zone.

Interesting side note, the original script has one scene with Scotty/Troi, after LaForge runs him down, & before his trip to 10-F, where Scotty runs her off for being a head shrinker

Even though they all act like he's a close personal friend at the end, during the episode, the only one who seemed at all sympathetic to him was Picard, & I guess Data slightly, which was less about sympathy or bonding, & more about intrigue. Heck, even his "Synthetic Commanders" remark was pretty insensitive

While I've always thought Geordi could've been a lot less hostile to Scotty, in his run down, it is also kind of hard to not notice how off-putting Scotty was to them. I realize the guy's going through a tough time in his life, but these people only wanted to help, & he doesn't seem to be very gracious about that, or very considerate of the fact that regardless of how many years have passed, these are HIS people... Starfleet. He could've been found by a ship full of Ferengi

 

[Tosk]

His comment about "Prettier doctors" to Crusher was pretty sexist &/or creepy

Why exactly is it sexist and/or creepy?

 

[Spot261]

I do know it was mostly meant to be a light-hearted comedy sight gag, how Scotty would be put off by a Klingon serving on the Enterprise, but in hindsight, I really wish they hadn't done it, at least not that bit at the end. It can be interpreted as kind of prejudiced, & while I'm sure, at 1st, it might surprise or shock Scotty, I'd imagine that by the end, he'd be just fine with it. Scotty is no bigot imho, & Worf is a pretty fair & decent guy once you get past the introduction.

Frankly, Scotty didn't really win points with any of the crew. He butt heads with Geordi until they worked it out. His comment about "Prettier doctors" to Crusher was pretty sexist &/or creepy, & while Troi gave him a hug at the end, he never really got shown with her at all, despite the fact that he clearly needed someone to help him out with his retirement funk (Who better than the ship's counselor?) In fact, WTF is Troi doing? This is exactly the kind of person who needs her help, just like the cryo-peeps they found in The Neutral Zone.

Interesting side note, the original script has one scene with Scotty/Troi, after LaForge runs him down, & before his trip to 10-F, where Scotty runs her off for being a head shrinker

Even though they all act like he's a close personal friend at the end, during the episode, the only one who seemed at all sympathetic to him was Picard, & I guess Data slightly, which was less about sympathy or bonding, & more about intrigue. Heck, even his "Synthetic Commanders" remark was pretty insensitive

While I've always thought Geordi could've been a lot less hostile to Scotty, in his run down, it is also kind of hard to not notice how off-putting Scotty was to them. I realize the guy's going through a tough time in his life, but these people only wanted to help, & he doesn't seem to be very gracious about that, or very considerate of the fact that regardless of how many years have passed, these are HIS people... Starfleet. He could've been found by a ship full of Ferengi

TOS was chock full of examples of Sf officers being prejudiced and bigoted, Scotty amongst them. Trek has never really suggested prejudice will go away, merely that our current prejudices will likely be replaced by new ones. Scotty had several run ins with Klingons throughout TOS and it is totally in fitting with his character.

As for "prettier doctors", yeah, have to roll with the sexist bit.

 

[Mojochi]

Why exactly is it sexist and/or creepy?

Because it reduced her medical ministrations to the esthetic value of her gender. He also reduced Data to the mere synthohol version of a real commander.

TOS was chock full of examples of Sf officers being prejudiced and bigoted, Scotty amongst them. Trek has never really suggested prejudice will go away, merely that our current prejudices will likely be replaced by new ones. Scotty had several run ins with Klingons throughout TOS and it is totally in fitting with his character.

Yeah, I agree, but none of them are Worf. Worf's a good guy for the most part. I have a hard time believing that if Scotty spent time onboard the D, & befriended all the others, he'd still be wary of Worf, who is about as human compatible as Klingons get. That he still squares off with him is kind of sad to me, even though it was meant to be funny, & denotes a deeper kind of bigotry he can't get past

 

[Phoenix219]

I hated this episode and everything they did to Scotty, anyways. Not a happy ending at all..... alone in a shuttle in a future where you know nobody and all your loved ones are dead, and everything you know, even your most amazing skills and abilities, have been overshadowed and surpassed. This was a miserable end for a beloved character.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Yeah, I agree, but none of them are Worf. Worf's a good guy for the most part. I have a hard time believing that if Scotty spent time onboard the D, & befriended all the others, he'd still be wary of Worf, who is about as human compatible as Klingons get. That he still squares off with him is kind of sad to me, even though it was meant to be funny, & denotes a deeper kind of bigotry he can't get past

Worf's a good guy if you work with him long enough. But he's very, um, disciplined, and not the most outgoing, friendliest crewmate around. Scotty is a man stuck with his prejudices, and Worf (who has his own prejudices, as evidenced by many TNG episodes), is not in a position where he needs to or wants to shake Scotty of them.

Worf could've become great friends with Scotty, but he had no need. And Scotty had enough to contend with at the moment, without topping it all off with a lesson in racism.

 

[USS Triumphant]

As for "prettier doctors", yeah, have to roll with the sexist bit.

Given he was used to McCoy, how do we know he wouldn't have been just as likely to say that to Bashir?

 

[urbandefault]

A Klingon called the Enterprise garbage to Scotty's face. That's not something a proud chief engineer lets go easily.

 

[Phoenix219]

He had to BLOW UP his Enterprise because of the Klingons. That ALONE is enough for him.

 

[Mojochi]

But don't all the TOS crew, Scotty included get a heaping helping of humbling about their prejudiced views in TUC?

It's not just about Klingons. It's about Worf. How could Scotty befriend, Laforge, Crusher, Troi, Data & Picard, without that they somehow get him to realize WHO Worf is? I'd think one conversation with Geordi would be all it would take. Something like "Who Worf? HA! That guy was raised on Earth by a human family. The mother of his kid was half human. He's one of my best friends. I'd take a disruptor blast in the chest for that guy. " I can't imagine Scotty holding onto grudges & prejudices once he got to know Worf in even the most insignificant way

I hated this episode and everything they did to Scotty, anyways. Not a happy ending at all..... alone in a shuttle in a future where you know nobody and all your loved ones are dead, and everything you know, even your most amazing skills and abilities, have been overshadowed and surpassed. This was a miserable end for a beloved character.

This is another issue. They really should've given him a 2-parter, where maybe he warms up to everybody & eventually finds out that Data actually met Bones & that maybe he & even some of the others might still be alive. Maybe after he has his holodeck scene, hitting rock bottom, he could go back to Troi, & actually take the help she offered (In the original script) & her idea could be that he just needed some socialization & she could invite him to the poker game lol

Then Picard could have his scene with Geordi, about helping him feel useful, & then at the poker game, everybody could loosen up, ease tensions (Geordi & Worf especially) finishing off the rest of the Aldebran Whiskey, & Riker could offer him some real Kentucky Bourbon he's got stowed away (Which would remind him of Bones)

 

[Tosk]

Because it reduced her medical ministrations to the esthetic value of her gender.

I disagree. He thanked her, then complimented her.

He also reduced Data to the mere synthohol version of a real commander.

He made a factual statement about him. Data is a synthetic Commander.

"I'll say this for your TrekBBS. The members are a fair sight more attractive."

 

[Mojochi]

He made a factual statement about him. Data is a synthetic Commander

In the context of the scene, he reviled at the notion of synthetic scotch to real scotch, & then made the comparison of synthetic scotch TO synthetic commanders. Overall, he showed disgruntlement at the notion of both, like somebody's grumpy old granddad, talking about "Back in my day we didn't have synthetic blah blah blah"

I disagree. He thanked her, then complimented her

That it was a compliment is what's in dispute here. "You're very pretty" is a compliment. (& even then, sometimes an unwelcome one) "I'll say this about your ship... The doctors are prettier" ???? That's NOT a compliment... to the doctor OR the ship. He's not only judging doctors on prettiness, which is just about the LAST thing doctoring should be judged on, but after all he's seen in advancements aboard, just in the trip from the transporter room to sick bay, his thought of praise is to say that sickbay is stocked with prettier people? Now maybe he was lightheartedly joking, but puhleeeze lol

I'm not saying he meant either remark to Bev or Data AS a dig, but that because it was so insensitive, it IS a dig. As far as I'm concerned, they played Scotty as everybody's embarrassingly bigoted old grampa who doesn't know any better

 

[Tosk]

I don't disagree that the comments may have been meant as a dig. I just disagree that the first statement was sexist-creepy. But I won't bring it up again.

 

[Charles Phipps]

They were pretty racist and sexist in the Space Sixties. Despite this, everyone basically gives Scotty a pass (as do I) because the guy is a galaxy famous hero and has just been through a traumatizing event.

It's like The Undiscovered Country.

"REALLY? You're disappointed Kirk and the crew are racist against Klingons? How shocking that they have flaws."



Besides, Worf may have been raised by humans but he worships Klingon culture.

 

[Mojochi]

"REALLY? You're disappointed Kirk and the crew are racist against Klingons? How shocking that they have flaws."

I wouldn't say that. It's more that I'm let down we missed an opportunity to show something promising between Scotty & Worf specifically. While it wouldn't surprise me to find prejudiced tendencies among the TOS crew, obviously, it does disappoint me that such would carry over among main cast members of Star Trek, who for all intents & purposes are almost universally shown to go beyond that, among one another. I think they handled Data/Bones SO much better, & still managed to hint at some of his Vulcan prejudices

I just think after having gotten to know them, it would be pretty hard for a guy like Scotty to have any kind of animosity toward a guy like Worf. These are guys who wouldn't be that polarizing in such a circumstance as this imho, & while I have to accept that such is what happened, it is a bit sad we couldn't do better by our regulars

 

[Mojochi]

I don't usually double post, but there's something I just thought to add as a final thought on this topic, & then if its run its course, I'll shut up about it lol

I think a very simple thing could've been done to change the whole dynamic of that final Scotty/Worf encounter, from animosity to acceptance. When the 2 of them square off at the end (Pictured in the OP) had Scotty raised his fists in jest, like he was "putting up his dooks for a fight", & then smiled at him to let him know he has no actual hard feelings, that's something I think Worf would get, & would be easily relatable to the audience, & would've been a bit of a better way to leave things. Ahhh dammit. Missed opportunities

 

[Six of Twelve]

Too bad Scotty didn't meet Pulaski in this episode.

 

[Mojochi]

Too bad Scotty didn't meet Pulaski in this episode.

Hmmm... Interesting... Any specific reason why? or is it just that he might have been a little more at ease around some people with a few more years under their belt? He did seem to get along well with Picard, & Picard really seemed to "Get" him too. It's possible Pulaski might have been similar in that regard.

I sure hope Bones is still around. Even in his advanced elderly state, I can see Scotty getting on very well, back together with him in some way

 

[Tim Thomason]

Hmmm... Interesting... Any specific reason why? or is it just that he might have been a little more at ease around some people with a few more years under their belt? He did seem to get along well with Picard, & Picard really seemed to "Get" him too. It's possible Pulaski might have been similar in that regard.

I sure hope Bones is still around. Even in his advanced elderly state, I can see Scotty getting on very well, back together with him in some way

Probably a reference to the fact that Diana Muldaur was in The Original Series a couple times. It would've been a semi-pseudo-reunion for the two actors.

 

[Six of Twelve]

Probably a reference to the fact that Diana Muldaur was in The Original Series a couple times. It would've been a semi-pseudo-reunion for the two actors.

No. It was simply that her personality was more like what Scotty was used to with Bones. Nothing more.