Scotland to leave the UK?

[Scrambo]

This wont happen for a long time. The welsh parliament have been given power to make their own decisions without main parliament. Unfortunately this may mean that England will suffer as we already do EG = due to scotland & wales having free prescriptions england are paying by us having to pay more. To be honest England,Scotland & wales have never got on with each other and i imagine at some point each will break away and then discover how much we actually needed each other. My god it sounds like a bad love film.

 

[MacLeod]

I don't think the Union will break up, though I do agree that only English MP's should vote on matters in the UK Parliament that relate to England Only.

 

[Sean Aaron]

Well, I'm firmly in favour of independence simply because Scotland seems to have different priorities from England, which, with its larger population naturally dominates the domestic and foreign policy agenda. I think my taxes would go up, but I don't think we'd be worse off economically since the North Sea would logically be Scottish waters and there's a bundle to be made selling energy and water to England.

Of course even the SNP have toned down their rhetoric (as I'm sure those above who have gone ad nauseum about their opposition already know) and I expect making the rest of the UK's relationship to Scotland more federal would address the majority of grievances. Of course there are still constitutional issues to consider because there is no mechanism for any nation leaving the UK. It's likely we would have an initial referendum, booked for sometime in 2015, and then another one based upon whatever terms are worked out with the Westminster government, so it's not a cut-and-dried single-vote issue.

As far as leaving NATO goes, who cares? Unlike Westminster I think most Scots realise that as a small country we don't need to go off on military adventures with Uncle Sam to prove our station.

 

[Starkers]

Yeah the West Lothian question definitely needs adressing at some point. Scottish independence is far more unlikely than it might have appeared a few years ago, then Salmond could rightly point to small countries who were going great guns econimically such as the Republic of Ireland, Iceland etc...now though, I'd guess Scotland is far better to be part of the UK economy than be on its own. It'd also need a lot of cash to buy back the Royal Bank of Scotland

I wish they'd hold the vote, the people would vote no and then the whole issue would be put to bed, for a few decades at least.

 

[Deckerd]

One of the (very few) reasons the UK cites for keeping Scotland within its skirts is the fact that the army is disproportionately populated with young Scots. This is another thorny problem Alex Salmond has brushed off by saying we could keep joint armed forces in the event of independence, notwithstanding his objection to every military action the UK has taken in... ever. I can just imagine his posturing every time HMF sends his bonny lads off to another war.

 

[Pingfah]

I say cut em off now, just for thinking about it.

Complete economic isolation, complete military independence. Build a 20ft wall, charge them to get into England, and if they want the North Sea they can fight us for it.

 

[Hound of UIster]

Good for them.

They can become Somalia in miniature except with more hipsters.

 

[TheGodBen]

But think about the potential for a Ireland-Scotland alliance: if you manage to bring in Wales, you can conquer England and make it your vassal state!

Shhh! Don't tell everyone about my secret plan!

It's sexy to be separate until the Scottish people would have to fund their own defense and essentially recreate many of the services they enjoy as being part of the larger today.

What defence? They're hardly under any threat from an invasion and the SNP seem to want to pursue a somewhat pacifist agenda, unlike the UK as a whole. They could probably save some money by not being part of the UK's military force.

Using Ireland as the example, as we're the closest example of a country that withdrew from the UK, we've got 8 destroyers to stop drugs and stuff entering the country and we have 7 fighters that are used for... hell, I don't even know what they do. Air shows, I guess.

Why would an independent Scotland need a large military? (Other than as some sort of stupid subsidy.)

 

[Admiral Shran]

They can become Somalia in miniature except with more hipsters.

Well, seeing as how Somalia is doing better without a functioning government than it did with one, that's probably not a bad idea.

 

[Lonemagpie]

No.

Alex Salmond sees it differently than you do.

Alex Salmond, Scotland's first minister and leader of the SNP, is the man plotting the demise of the 304-year-old union of the two countries. He hopes his fellow citizens will heed the message of another tune, "Flower of Scotland," the unofficial national anthem which urges Scots to "rise now and be a nation again."

Alex Salmond has admitted the referendum will turn down independence. So no.

Correct - there was a survey a couple of weeks ago which showed that 60% of SNP members and voters - i.e. the ones in the party named for independence - are *against* independence...

Simple fact is, Scotland turned away from Labour, who didn't even bother putting up much a show at the election, turned away from the LibDems for being part of the coalition, and are genetically incapable of voting Tory. So the SNP got a shitload of votes more or less by dint of being the only left-leaning party still going. No surprises there.

 

[Hound of UIster]

They can become Somalia in miniature except with more hipsters.

Well, seeing as how Somalia is doing better without a functioning government than it did with one, that's probably not a bad idea.

Better in the sense that it's now exporting its problems to the rest of the world via international piracy.

Perhaps NATO should stage an intervention in Scotland before we see Hipster Vikings popping up in the North Sea.

 

[Deckerd]

Haven't you seen Trawlermen? They're already there.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Does this mean that they'd be removing the Saltire of St. Andrew from the Union Flag? Would it even then still technically BE a "Union" Flag, since there would really no longer be a "Union"?

 

[DimesDan]

Does this mean that they'd be removing the Saltire of St. Andrew from the Union Flag? Would it even then still technically BE a "Union" Flag, since there would really no longer be a "Union"?

This is the biggest issue arising from Scottish independence, whether or no a piece of fabric stays the same!!!!

Given the cross of Saint Patrick used to be representative of Ireland itself, but now represents Northern Ireland, I'm sure something can be done to retain the make up of the flag.

If not, we'll just remove the white cross of saint Andrew and it'll look a bit funny for a while while we get used to it.

 

[Sean Aaron]

I say cut em off now, just for thinking about it.

Complete economic isolation, complete military independence. Build a 20ft wall, charge them to get into England, and if they want the North Sea they can fight us for it.

You know that kind of crap is how the union of parliaments was forced in the first place. How original.

 

[Pingfah]

Obviously I was not serious. I mean a 20ft wall and an entrance fee?

 

[Goliath]

Simple fact is, Scotland turned away from Labour, who didn't even bother putting up much a show at the election, turned away from the LibDems for being part of the coalition, and are genetically incapable of voting Tory. So the SNP got a shitload of votes more or less by dint of being the only left-leaning party still going. No surprises there.

Are you secretly Neal Ascherson?

Because I was just reading his article in the London Review of Books about Scottish politics, and his analysis was almost identical to yours. Talking to some new SNP voters, he says:

I saw that this was often their second migration. Once they had been refugees from Blairism and New labour. Now they were in renewed flight from Cleggery. For such cultured, douce folk, the language they used about the coalition was shocking. Hatred of English Tories isn't universal in Scotland. But it's the one jagged ingredient that never softens, never dissolves in the political broth.

Ascherson seems to think that independence is less likely than something similar to what has happened in Quebec--people voting "yes" to the SNP, but "no" to independence.

 

[Ethros]

I don't know about Scotland, but in 2025 Northern Ireland will

 

[Sean Aaron]

Obviously I was not serious. I mean a 20ft wall and an entrance fee?

There's that text not conveying tone again. Sorry to force you to use one of those horrible animated things.

I'd like to think the UK would finally join the Schengen Zone as a result myself, but what you describe might not be bad: we could have a perpetual car boot sale on either side and rides for the kiddies!

 

[Pingfah]

In truth I love Scotland and I would be sad to see them go, but I don't have any specific problem with them doing their own thing if that is what they want.

I don't really think the benefits outweigh the significant upheaval it would cause though.