Scifi with aggressive sexuality

[Bob The Skutter]

Of course if we're going with Buffy stuff that deals with rape culture and the way geek culture is sometimes guilty of treating women then you have to go some way to find anything quite so on the nose as Warren and Troika and their treatment of women in general and Katrina specifically.

 

[T'Arwen]

Star Trek was often contradictory in it's "message:. Especially where women are concerned. It was very much a product of it's times and the times previous. It borrowed a lot from Western and classical literature. Mudd's Women is a prime example of this. There was little effort to update it to the 1960s and especially the 2260s. I think Elaan of Troyius suffers from a similar problem. Archaic marriage customs in a supposedly enlightened futuristic setting. Then there's Amok Time.

Vulcans are the most contradictory when it comes to treatment of women. A woman can captain a ship but is legally the property of her husband.

 

[thestrangequark]

Of course if we're going with Buffy stuff that deals with rape culture and the way geek culture is sometimes guilty of treating women then you have to go some way to find anything quite so on the nose as Warren and Troika and their treatment of women in general and Katrina specifically.

I may be getting this wrong because it's been a really long time since I watched it, but she specifically used the word rape, too, didn't she? That was the moment when the other two (can't remember their names) were like, "Holy shit, she's right, that's what we did!" A really powerful moment. The moment you can see them seeing her as a person for the first time. And a moment addressing rape culture, because there are guys in real life who are like that -- hell, some of them in this thread -- that have been so bombarded with the message that a woman's affection is something they're owed that they don't even recognize the attitude that have as, well, rapey.

Man, Warren's fate still shocks me every time I see it, though.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

I may be getting this wrong because it's been a really long time since I watched it, but she specifically used the word rape, too, didn't she? That was the moment when the other two (can't remember their names) were like, "Holy shit, she's right, that's what we did!" A really powerful moment. The moment you can see them seeing her as a person for the first time. And a moment addressing rape culture, because there are guys in real life who are like that -- hell, some of them in this thread -- that have been so bombarded with the message that a woman's affection is something they're owed that they don't even recognize the attitude that have as, well, rapey.

Man, Warren's fate still shocks me every time I see it, though.

Yep, she calls it what it is and Jonathan and Andrew both reel at the fact they were arguing over who got to rape her and then Warren kills her. It's among the reasons I have a hard time classifying then as the crappy villains it's commonly held they are. Because they're so close to our world it actually makes them much worse and more horrifying.

 

[Zaku]

Ok, let's try to update a little the plot of Mudd's Women.
The three women were living in the most backward corners of the Federation (and really, the few times that we see a Federation world in TOS it don't strike me as a post-scarcity utopia). They weren't happy with their social status (because it's evident in TOS that the concept of "social status" exists) so they looked for a way to improve it. After analyzing carefully all the pros and cons of the various options, they decided the the marriage with a miner was the preferred way to climb the social ladder (because even in the most egalitarian Scandinavian society you have a lot of perks if you marry someone with a lot of money).

Kirk (after warning them that Mudd is, well, Mudd) respected their decision because they are grown-up women and it wasn't his place to decide what was better for them.

Better?

 

[Amaris]

Ok, let's try to update a little the plot of Mudd's Women.
The three women were living in the most backward corners of the Federation (and really, the few times that we see a Federation world in TOS it don't strike me as a post-scarcity utopia). They weren't happy with their social status (because it's evident in TOS that the concept of "social status" exists) so they looked for a way to improve it. After analyzing carefully all the pros and cons of the various options, they decided the the marriage with a miner was the preferred way to climb the social ladder (because even in the most egalitarian Scandinavian society you have a lot of perks if you marry someone with a lot of money).

Kirk (after warning them that Mudd is, well, Mudd) respected their decision because they are grown-up women and it wasn't his place to decide what was better for them.

Better?

Wrong font.

 

[Zaku]

Wrong font.

Everyone's a critic...

 

[Jedman67]

@{ Emilia }
To digress back to the earlier topic of catcalls and verbal harassment of women; one of my summer interns had come by my office to ask a question about her paycheck. I took the opportunity to ask her about verbal harassment, catcalling etc. and her answer floored me. Needless to say you're absolutely right, men really have no clue. I was quite furious - i was raised to be respectful and courteous to all people.

edit: its not that I was unaware, it's that i didn't really realize or internalize the impact without hearing about it firsthand.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm wondering if any of the same people who think "Mudd's Women" is about prostitution or trafficking, think the same thing about Here Come The Brides.

 

[Bob The Skutter]

Yes I do... What is it?

 

[Zaku]

I'm wondering if any of the same people who think "Mudd's Women" is about prostitution or trafficking, think the same thing about Here Come The Brides.

Obviously yes. Unfortunately, in keeping with the restrictions on television at the time, the authors couldn't use the words "prostitute" or "sex slave", so instead they used the euphemism "wife". But really, the tv show was about human trafficking. Everybody knew this.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Yes I do... What is it?

TV show built around the concept of bringing women out West, ( In this case Seattle) in the 1800's to become wives of the men who work there. One of the stars is Mark (Sarek) Lenard. And the Star Trek Novel Ishmael is based on it. It's based on actual history.

The Mercer Girls or Mercer Maids were an 1860s project of Asa Shinn Mercer, an American who lived in Seattle, who decided to "import" women to the Pacific Northwest to balance the gender ratio. These events formed the basis of the television series Here Come the Brides.[1]

 

[Bob The Skutter]

DC had a preview showing of The Killing Joke at Comic Con... There has been a lot of noise about it. Here's a start to finish summary of it in live tweet form.

https://storify.com/marcyjcook/start-to-finish-breakdown-of-the-killing-joke-movi

 

[Kemaiku]

The Kelvin-verse comics already sort of switched this up.

"Harry" Mudd uses the same roundabout reveal as the pilot episode of Sherlock, short for Harriot. We find out Harry has largely retired and found himself a Bajoran wife, maybe even settled down happier than with Stella. Unfortunately his half Bajoran daughter Harriot Mudd is now the space pirate in this universe.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Obviously yes. Unfortunately, in keeping with the restrictions on television at the time, the authors couldn't use the words "prostitute" or "sex slave", so instead they used the euphemism "wife". But really, the tv show was about human trafficking. Everybody knew this.

How do you figure?

The brides in question were not prostitutes or slaves. Remember, the central plot of the series was that Aaron Stempel had a bet going (with the Bolt brothers) that the women wouldn't stay for an entire year. Now tell me, how do you think that could work if those women were forced into this?

Obviously the women were not slaves, since they could leave whenever they wanted to. That's the whole POINT of the show!

 

[The Mighty Monkey of Mim]

^That might have been sarcasm.

 

[Zaku]

How do you figure?

The brides in question were not prostitutes or slaves. Remember, the central plot of the series was that Aaron Stempel had a bet going (with the Bolt brothers) that the women wouldn't stay for an entire year. Now tell me, how do you think that could work if those women were forced into this?

Obviously the women were not slaves, since they could leave whenever they wanted to. That's the whole POINT of the show!

I was just a little sarcastic

And please, @The Borgified Corpse, don't like my posts. You make me feel very uncomfortable.

 

[Guy Gardener]

7 Brides for 7 brothers?

 

[Zaku]

7 Brides for 7 brothers?

Yes, an incredible sad tale of kidnapping and sexual slavery.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Or a successful story about brainwashing.

After the pass (in the ravine) thawed, those boys should have been shot dead, no matter how much their "wives" pleaded that their love was real.