Science Fiction is doomed part 2: Zombies and Time Travelers Oh My

[Harvey]

The kind of reductive argument that the article engages in places films like Seeking A Friend For The End Of The World and Safety Not Guaranteed alongside the likes of Battleship and Men In Black III. That doesn't seem particularly useful or informative to me. The author might be on to something regarding shifting patterns in Hollywood blockbusters, but by making it about science fiction he muddles the argument.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Real people with lives don't watch movies.

It's just a fascinater they use to achieve other ends like making children or getting the children then already have to shut the fuck up for an hour.

To a real person there is no difference between Pulp Fiction and Out of Africa.

Real people don't have enough imagination to transfer their experienciality onto the movie screen through creative empatheticalization, they just want to turn their mind off and feel nothing because anything else is just a different varying degree of ongoing increasing levels of pain.

That's why real people buy cocaine and prostitutes, because they're too dead inside to be happy with out any artificiality propping up their will to live.

Ditto for religion, fast red cars, stamp collecting and pets.

 

[Yminale]

My apologies for the way you read my response, it wasn't meant to be phrased in a manner such as "What are you 12 years old", but, rather, I was trying to understand your experiences with Social "Mood" such as if you were born after Cold War, and only really know 911 as a horrifying event, or if you might be old enough to remember the Cold War, or WWII or other wars if living in other countries (For example a resident of Israel would experience the same Social "Mood" regardless when they were born after WWII)

Please elaborate on your point. If I understand what you're saying, you seem to imply that a person's life experience determines their perception of the media they consume.

 

[Yminale]

Was there some halcyon TNG era after the Cold War? Possibly, but, from my perspective, that was just a temporary blip. Pre-STAR WARS, sf was, arguably, bleaker and more pessimistic than most of today's big summer blockbusters are ever allowed to get. Downbeat, despairing endings were the norm--which would probably never get past test audiences today.

All movies were bleaker and more pessimistic. You're talking about a decade that gave us "Easy Rider", "Apocalypse Now", "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid" and "Bonny and Clyde". That being said Star Wars really changed things because it was so upbeat (if you ignore the fact that the empire blew up an entire planet)

 

[Thestral]

I'm not talking about the Cold War. I was comparing now to the time after the end of the Cold War. TNG was definitely lighter than TOS and even with the X-files, I think people watched it for pure escapism.

But DS9 was definitely darker than TOS or TNG - which debuted two years before the fall of the Berlin Wall - and it entirely falls into the "post-Soviet Union, pre-9/11." And I agree with Greg - meant for escapism or not, you can't deny that The X-Files thrived on suspicion, conspiracy, shadowy governments hiding things from us, etc.

Please elaborate on your point. If I understand what you're saying, you seem to imply that a person's life experience determines their perception of the media they consume.

Heavily influences, at least.

 

[Harvey]

All movies were bleaker and more pessimistic. You're talking about a decade that gave us "Easy Rider", "Apocalypse Now", "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid" and "Bonny and Clyde".

The movies you pick come from the period of 1967-1979, the same twelve years that resulted in films like The Sting, Superman, and Airport. There was certainly a brief trend of studio financed movies that offered a bleaker view than most popular entertainment, but it's hyperbole to claim that anything near "all movies" were bleaker and more pessimistic during the period.

 

[Sindatur]

My apologies for the way you read my response, it wasn't meant to be phrased in a manner such as "What are you 12 years old", but, rather, I was trying to understand your experiences with Social "Mood" such as if you were born after Cold War, and only really know 911 as a horrifying event, or if you might be old enough to remember the Cold War, or WWII or other wars if living in other countries (For example a resident of Israel would experience the same Social "Mood" regardless when they were born after WWII)

Please elaborate on your point. If I understand what you're saying, you seem to imply that a person's life experience determines their perception of the media they consume.

Not, the Media they consume, but, their overall views. I was saying those who have lived through WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, Cold War, 911 would all have experienced a Collective National Horror/Fear, and if 911 would produce an uptick in downbeat Media per your theory, due to that Social Mood, then all the other periods that were "horrific milestones" would produce the same uptick. I was born in 1964, so, grew up with Vietnam War and Cold War, as well as living through 911 period, and The Cold War and Vietnam were really no different than 911 as far as being scary.

 

[stj]

The counter-examples are conclusive. There is no easy relationship between upbeat and downbeat and closely contemporary events.

The long-term trend since the Seventies toward a declining real standard of living for the majority of the population might be another issue. Poverty, like wealth, can breed a population convinced life is a zero-sum game. Again, I think the real issue isn't upbeat vs. downbeat, but humane vs. misanthropic (cynical, if you prefer.) The other side probably thinks of it as folly vs. realism.

 

[DarthTom]

Phew, pretty depressing list, huh? At least the top two movies are decent anyway...

You forgot Prometheus. Ancient aliens populate the earth with human beings breaking all known laws of evolution and natural selection theories but who cares.

Fast word tens of thousands to years - we go to meet our makers in outer space only to find out they wanna kill off their grand experiment with us.

 

[Yminale]

The movies you pick come from the period of 1967-1979, the same twelve years that resulted in films like The Sting, Superman, and Airport.

Superman the movie was definitely more bleaker than the comic book. We saw the destruction of Krypton, the death of Pa Kent, Lex Luther nuking California and Loise Lane getting buried alive.

Can't comment on Airport or the Sting because I never saw those movies.

There was certainly a brief trend of studio financed movies that offered a bleaker view than most popular entertainment, but it's hyperbole to claim that anything near "all movies" were bleaker and more pessimistic during the period.

Enough of the hyperbole criticism. It's as bad as the complaints against spelling and grammar. The general trend is self-evident and has been commented on by well know film critics like Roger Ebert. Any example you come up with are probably exceptions.

 

[Yminale]

Not, the Media they consume, but, their overall views. I was saying those who have lived through WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, Cold War, 911 would all have experienced a Collective National Horror/Fear, and if 911 would produce an uptick in downbeat Media per your theory, due to that Social Mood, then all the other periods that were "horrific milestones" would produce the same uptick. I was born in 1964, so, grew up with Vietnam War and Cold War, as well as living through 911 period, and The Cold War and Vietnam were really no different than 911 as far as being scary.

Both the Cold War and the Vietnam War did create an uptick in downbeat media. The Cold War was famous for the whole "science run amok" "atomic horrors" "alien invasion". "Godzilla", "Invasion of the Body Snatchers", "Them!", "The Day the Earth stood Still", "The Blob" etc... The Vietnam produced "Apocalypse Now" "Rambo" "The Deer Hunter" "Platoon" "MASH" "Dirty Harry". At one time every cop, detective, secret agent and vigilante portrayed in the 80's was a Vietnam veteran with issues. You could always argue that in aggregate they were the minority but their cultural influence simply outweighed their number.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The movies you pick come from the period of 1967-1979, the same twelve years that resulted in films like The Sting, Superman, and Airport.

Superman the movie was definitely more bleaker than the comic book. We saw the destruction of Krypton, the death of Pa Kent, Lex Luther nuking California and Loise Lane getting buried alive.

We've seen Krypton being destroyed, the death of the Kents and various threats to the world and Lois Lane in the comics for decades.

Krypton's destruction is key event in Superman's origin in the comics. Its always destroyed "on screen." Usually seen from the ground and from space.

Luthor's movie scheme is small scale compared to the comics. Real Estate? This is a guy who schemes to rule countries and planets!

Being buried alive is just another day at the office for the Lois in the comics.

Most retellings of Superman's origin includes references to the Kent's death. The silver age version has the Kents dying of a tropical virus a decade before the movie's release.

 

[Yminale]

We've seen Krypton being destroyed, the death of the Kents and various threats to the world and Lois Lane in the comics for decades.

The original comic dedicated one panel to the destruction of Krypton. I'm sure you're right about it being elaborated but I always thought that comics explored that aspect after the movie.

Luthor's movie scheme is small scale compared to the comics. Real Estate? This is a guy who schemes to rule countries and planets!

Using real nuclear weapons instead of some fake destructo beam. Plus he almost pulls it off.

Being buried alive is just another day at the office Lois in the comics.

But did Lois Lane actually DIE in the silver age comics. I don't think they went that far.

Most retellings of Superman's origin includes references to the Kent's death. The silver age version has the Kents dying of a tropical virus a decade before the movie's release.

Like Krypton, Pa Kent's death was added to the continuity after the movie.

 

[Nerys Myk]

We've seen Krypton being destroyed, the death of the Kents and various threats to the world and Lois Lane in the comics for decades.

The original comic dedicated one panel to the destruction of Krypton. I'm sure you're right about it being elaborated but I always thought that comics explored that aspect after the movie.

As I said every retelling shows the destruction in various amount of details.

Luthor's movie scheme is small scale compared to the comics. Real Estate? This is a guy who schemes to rule countries and planets!

Using real nuclear weapons instead of some fake destructo beam. Plus he almost pulls it off.

I'm sure Luthor and other villains have used atomic/nuclear weapons in the comics.

Being buried alive is just another day at the office Lois in the comics.

But did Lois Lane actually DIE in the silver age comics. I don't think they went that far.

Lois has "died" a few times.

Most retellings of Superman's origin includes references to the Kent's death. The silver age version has the Kents dying of a tropical virus a decade before the movie's release.

Like Krypton, Pa Kent's death was added to the continuity after the movie.[/QUOTE

I just gave you an example of the death that was published a decade before the movie came out. Here's a panel from the origin story published in 1973. If you read the whole story you also see the destruction of Krypton. Below it are links to other versions from 1939 to 2003. Many feature the destruction of krypton and the deaths of the Kents.

 

[Klaus]

Science fiction is almost 200 years old, and it's not going anywhere... styles and flavors may change, but people will always whine about how much things suck now and how much better they used to be in any genre or walk of life. It's human nature to look back to an idealized golden age that wasn't so frakking hot to begin with.

Move along, nothing to see here... the song remains the same.

 

[stj]

Looking at both print and movies/television, the relative decline in the number of SF works, both absolutely and compared to its non-realist competitors suggests that there is a secular trend towards the belief that the "future" is just more of the same. As suggested, this is possibly a reflection of the stagnation/decline in real living standards.

 

[Guy Gardener]

It's expectations fault.

Children still watch power rangers even though it's a just rubber masks and plastic swords but Adults can't handle that shit, which is why scifi for children with their half formed brains is affordable and will be nostalgic for years to come and creating loyalty tot he genre...

Scifi for adults with adult expectations in financially untenable.

"Sigh"

I tried watching a couple episodes of Captain Power and the Soldiers of the Future last month.

JMS is not God.

He may be the devil.

 

[JRS]

Just trying to think of the great Time Travel movies/TV shows.

Quantum Leap comes to mind,
that was a pretty good time travel related tv-show..

 

[MacLeod]

QL was one of the better ones, hard to think it's been what over a decade since it was last on.

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

^^^
Almost two decades.