Schoolkids vote to send lamb to slaughter

[Marc]

If you're going to eat it, you should know how it gets to your table, IMHO.

Why?

I know my steak comes from animal that goes moo and lamb from an animal that goes baa but I prefer know to personally know the animal it comes from.

I have the same problem with dog on the menu. Being some-one who's family has had several dogs over the years I just can't handle dog meat on the menu.

 

[RJDiogenes]

There's nothing wrong with the humane killing of animals for food, obviously, but it's still kind of creepy to hear of kids that age actually voting to kill a lamb.

 

[cultcross]

And a valuable lesson in hypocrisy, since I doubt many of the people screaming and crying are vegans.

Well, we need something to outraged about. the MPs expense scandal has stopped working as a news item, and we haven't found a way to assign blame for swine flu yet, so we need filler outrages to pass the time.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Wow, I didn't know Obama brainwashed the schoolkids to sacrifice a lamb in his name all the way over in the UK too. His mind-control powers are growing exponentially.

If you guys start hearing the schoolkids say this in unison, I'd head for the hills. It's already too late for us:

Obama is coming. Obama is coming. Obama is coming.

Obama is coming tomorrow. Obama is coming tomorrow. Obama is coming tomorrow.

Obama is here. Obama is here. Obama is here.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I grew up in the Midwest and Alaska, so killing animals for food is nothing new to me. Weird that the parents were bothered by it, though. Haven't they ever had some tasty lamb chops? Mmmm. Those kids made the right decision.

 

[JuanBolio]

I'm of two minds. Yes, slaughtering farm animals for meat is necessary. However it is far from noble. Hunting and bringing down prey in the wild is one thing - raising animals for their meat is a barely necessary evil. Also, one does not expect this evil to be forced on children, who had to make the choice after raising this animal and doubtlessly growing attached to it.

Furthermore, it had no consequence for them. They were not forced to watch the death of the lamb - the spilled blood that their decision resulted in. They should have been made to watch, so that they can understand that actions have very real consequences.

 

[Gepard]

Just reading this thread causes two reactions:

1.) I feel queasy, and

2.) I wish I had the willpower to become vegetarian/vegan.

Alas, meat is just too tasty and vegetables too crunchy and off-putting, so I'll have to remain a hypocrite.

 

[JustKate]

I'm of two minds. Yes, slaughtering farm animals for meat is necessary. However it is far from noble. Hunting and bringing down prey in the wild is one thing - raising animals for their meat is a barely necessary evil. Also, one does not expect this evil to be forced on children, who had to make the choice after raising this animal and doubtlessly growing attached to it.

Furthermore, it had no consequence for them. They were not forced to watch the death of the lamb - the spilled blood that their decision resulted in. They should have been made to watch, so that they can understand that actions have very real consequences.

Nonsense. I'm sorry, JuanBolio, to put it so bluntly, but that's how it seems to me. Of course slaughtering animals for meat isn't "noble." Neither is being a plumber, but both things are necessary. To me, the choice here isn't between "nobility" and "evil" - it's between reality and a petting zoo.

People should have to deal with the consequences of the evil they create - but since I don't consider eating meat "a barely necessary evil," clearly my attitude differs rather sharply from yours. Do we all have to watch manure being turned into fertilizer so that we understand where our carrots come from?

I do think those of us who eat meat do eventually need to get a fairly heavy dose of realism, but not necessarily right away. We don't want children to have to cope with the realities of war...or cancer treatment...or death of loved ones right away. They will need to do those things sooner or later, but reality doesn't have to be presented at its harshest starting in early childhood. I'd say this exercise is a fine beginning.

And by the way...clearly they didn't become attached to the lamb. If they had, they wouldn't have voted the way they did. Apparently they treated it as livestock, and you don't get attached to your future lambchops, bacon or rib roast. That's how farmers do their jobs.

 

[Cutter John]

So has anyone actually bothered to ask the kids why they voted the way they did?

If the kids on the council were treated to and enjoyed a nice roast lamb dinner in the cafeteria afterwards, then I'd be impressed.

 

[JuanBolio]

Nonsense. I'm sorry, JuanBolio, to put it so bluntly, but that's how it seems to me. Of course slaughtering animals for meat isn't "noble." Neither is being a plumber, but both things are necessary. To me, the choice here isn't between "nobility" and "evil" - it's between reality and a petting zoo.

People should have to deal with the consequences of the evil they create - but since I don't consider eating meat "a barely necessary evil," clearly my attitude differs rather sharply from yours.

Apparently you misunderstand me - I do not view eating meat as a barely necessary evil - I love meat, and would never give it up or suggest that anyone do so. I simply find the raising of animals on farms strictly for the purposes of meat to be a necessary evil - the animals have no lives, no freedom, no hope of escape or victory over their predator. Hunting is preferable, but inadequate to feed the number of people we have.

Do we all have to watch manure being turned into fertilizer so that we understand where our carrots come from?

Wouldn't hurt.

I do think those of us who eat meat do eventually need to get a fairly heavy dose of realism, but not necessarily right away. We don't want children to have to cope with the realities of war...or cancer treatment...or death of loved ones right away. They will need to do those things sooner or later, but reality doesn't have to be presented at its harshest starting in early childhood. I'd say this exercise is a fine beginning.

I disagree. I think its important for children to understand all aspects of that which they learn about - even and perhaps especially the unpleasent side. Those kids learned about all other aspects of raising a farm animal first-hand, and even voted to have it killed. They should see what happens so that they understand it isn't as simple as wishing something done, and then having it presented to you later, cut up by a butcher and shrink-wrapped.

As for not being attached to it - I'm sure some of them were. They're kids. One at least voted not to kill it. Also, perhaps the lamb grew attached to THEM. It had no idea the kids who fed it and made it comfortable were going to turn around and order its death. Perhaps it should be able to face its executioners in its final moments, and they it.

 

[JustKate]

If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. You sound kind of conflicted about eating meat, and I am sorry about that. Really. Though I wasn't raised on a livestock farm, I've been on many (two in just the past month), and I know many, many farmers. Perhaps that's part of the reason why I don't feel conflicted. I really don't think a deer, for example, who has to worry about predators (there aren't many real predators left in Indiana, but there would be in balanced ecosystem) has a life that is significantly better than, say, a steer's. At least the steer never goes hungry, nor is it gnawed on by a something when it's not quite dead.

 

[Deckerd]

Sounds as though JB wants to eat his cake and have it.

 

[JuanBolio]

If that's how you feel, that's how you feel. You sound kind of conflicted about eating meat, and I am sorry about that. Really. Though I wasn't raised on a livestock farm, I've been on many (two in just the past month), and I know many, many farmers. Perhaps that's part of the reason why I don't feel conflicted. I really don't think a deer, for example, who has to worry about predators (there aren't many real predators left in Indiana, but there would be in balanced ecosystem) has a life that is significantly better than, say, a steer's. At least the steer never goes hungry, nor is it gnawed on by a something when it's not quite dead.

^I edited my last post for clarity.

I'm not at all conflicted about eating meat. I find being part of a predatory species quite agreeable, and I enjoy the taste of meat and its nutritional value. I have no problem with killing an animal and eating it. I've done so before several times, but it was always a wild animal.

What I am conflicted about is the nature of the meat farm. A lot of those places don't keep their animals in especially great living conditions, nor are their deaths always humane. I'm not implying this is done out of cruelty, but the effect for the animal is the same. The beasts have no concept that they are being raised for their meat by a predator, or that their days are numbered and they have no chance of escape. They trust and allow themselves to be handled by the very predators that mean to kill and devour them. This gnaws at my sense of fair play. Yes, animals in the wild face starvation and many unpleasant realities - but they have the chance to live a long, full life so long as they can avoid the many pitfalls. That's something no farm-raised steer, lamb, or chicken can say.

 

[JuanBolio]

Sounds as though JB wants to eat his cake and have it.

If anything I'd prefer that there were few enough humans to be able to subsist on agriculture and hunting alone. As there are not, I tolerate meat farms and buy pre-packaged meat in the grocery store same as everyone else.

 

[Deckerd]

What I am conflicted about is the nature of the meat farm. A lot of those places don't keep their animals in especially great living conditions. I'm not implying this is done out of cruelty, but the effect for the animal is the same. The beasts have no concept that they are being raised for their meat by a predator, or that their days are numbered and they have no chance of escape. They trust and allow themselves to be handled by the very predators that mean to kill and devour them. This gnaws at my sense of fair play.

Ooookaaaay. So you're saying we should sit those baa lambs down and tell them they're going to be chops? I don't know what animal husbandry is like in the USA but it is very strictly regulated in the UK. Moreover nearly 100% of lambs are free range, by definition. This one was different since the class kept it in a field and cared for it.

 

[JuanBolio]

Ooookaaaay. So you're saying we should sit those baa lambs down and tell them they're going to be chops? I don't know what animal husbandry is like in the USA but it is very strictly regulated in the UK. Moreover nearly 100% of lambs are free range, by definition. This one was different since the class kept it in a field and cared for it.

I'm not saying any such thing. Obviously a lamb wouldn't understand a word that was said.

I'm saying the nature of these farms gnaws at my sense of fair play, as does the notion that these kids can order the lamb killed without having to see the consequences of their actions.

 

[Deckerd]

How do you know they didn't go to the abbatoir? You're just assuming they didn't. The concept of a 'meat farm' is alien to Brits. Most farmers usually do a bit of everything but unlike mainland Europe, most livestock is sent out to graze in the summer and only kept in in the worst of the winter. Except sheep who stay out all year.

 

[JuanBolio]

How do you know they didn't go to the abbatoir? You're just assuming they didn't. The concept of a 'meat farm' is alien to Brits. Most farmers usually do a bit of everything but unlike mainland Europe, most livestock is sent out to graze in the summer and only kept in in the worst of the winter. Except sheep who stay out all year.

You're right, I am assuming that they didn't see the lamb slaughtered - but I think its a pretty good assumption.

As for meat farms vs. free ranged livestock, the net effect is the same. Yes, its better that the animals have room to wander and the illusion of freedom, but its still just an illusion. They still have zero chance of escaping their predator.

 

[Deckerd]

Do you think they care?

 

[JustKate]

I think, Juan, that you have a slightly skewed view of how livestock are handled on farms. On the good farms - and most farms are good - they are treated humanely and they get what they need.

But they aren't treated like pets and they don't bond with their keepers. At least cattle, hogs and chickens don't - I don't know much about sheep since they aren't raised in any significant quantity here in Indiana. They recognize humans as the Givers of Food, but this concept you seem have of the sweet little pig who follows trustingly around after his owners just isn't accurate. At least it's not how it is on any farm I've ever been on, and I've been on a lot. I guess they don't think of humans as the Ones Who Are Going to Load Me On a Truck and Sell Me To Someone Who's Going to Turn Me into Ham, either, but all I can say is that they don't appear to think of them as...well, much of anything, really, aside from the Giver of Food angle. So long as they aren't hungry, they mostly just ignore humans. I mean, we just aren't that interesting to them.

Actually, sheep give the impression of never thinking about much of anything, but as I said, I am not that experienced regarding sheep.

But you're right, of course, that there's no chance of a long life. They are destined for the table.