Say What...

[2 of 10]

On the episode "The Siege of AR-558" when the away team arrives on the
planet Quark is telling Nog about how humans are usually nice, kind and generally really good people, but deprive them of food, water, sleep, at contstant battle against the Jem-Hadar, no sonic showers...ect and they become at bloodthirsty at a Klingon. I am of the opinion that if you put any species in that situation, they may not come across as being nice and friendly. Can you think of any species that would keep their decorum under this kind of pressure???

 

[sbk1234]

Vulcans

 

[2 of 10]

^
I thought about Vulcans, but I do have my doubts that even they could logically deduce that in spite of their situation, stay cool, calm and above all stay logical...

 

[trekkerguy]

They would.

 

[Ezri II]

^
I thought about Vulcans, but I do have my doubts that even they could logically deduce that in spite of their situation, stay cool, calm and above all stay logical...

Not the Vulcans.

The only type I could see would be a species that did not care if they live or die. They did not care about life or death. A species that my their nature are cronic in their depression. As yet, there is no race like that or species.

If there were, they would have died out as a species even before they understood there was life outside their planet.

 

[Navaros]

Granted, most species would do that.

But Quark's point was that the image that hewmons present themselves as is a false one; not their true selves.

It's like the Sisko said in another episode: "It's easy to be a saint in paradise."

Hewmons only act all nice and kind in the Federation because they don't have to compete for food or the other necessities of life. Quark was simply educating Nog about this reality; something Nog might not have realized otherwise because he never sees it happen only because they always have an abundance of food & resources.

 

[2 of 10]

^
You're right, however, in the context the Quark was making refrence was that only Human (I can't spell the way that Quark would pronounce Humans) are only civil when they have enough food, water, shelter, safety. Do you recall when Klingons run out of gagh and blood wine, they get REALLY upset, so why did Quark single out Humans to make a invalid point. I realize that he did not want to be there with Nog, I still think that Quark made an unfair comparison...

 

[The Borg Queen]

The Borg.

 

[Navaros]

^
so why did Quark single out Humans to make a invalid point. I realize that he did not want to be there with Nog, I still think that Quark made an unfair comparison...

Quark singled out hewmons because it was hewmons that Nog was idolizing.

I'm sure Quark would agree that other species would do those things too. Quark wasn't meaning to imply that only hewmons would do that.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

^
You're right, however, in the context the Quark was making refrence was that only Human (I can't spell the way that Quark would pronounce Humans) are only civil when they have enough food, water, shelter, safety. Do you recall when Klingons run out of gagh and blood wine, they get REALLY upset, so why did Quark single out Humans to make a invalid point. I realize that he did not want to be there with Nog, I still think that Quark made an unfair comparison...

I think the difference is that the Klingons don't pretend to be anything other than they are. Humans, on the other hand, pretend to be all "evolved" and "above all that" when in fact they are full of crap. It's the hypocrisy Quark had a (very legitimate) problem with.

 

[jamestyler]

I think the difference is that the Klingons don't pretend to be anything other than they are. Humans, on the other hand, pretend to be all "evolved" and "above all that" when in fact they are full of crap. It's the hypocrisy Quark had a (very legitimate) problem with.

I'd agree with that, it's what I thought when I've heard the line.

The evolved sensibility of TNG seems to be shown up in DS9, which works nicely. In the comfort of the Enterprise everyone can be as nice and evolved as they like. In the surroundings of DS9 it's a lot harder to pretend you're the perfect people you claim.

It's a line that works well with Quark. He doesn't pretend to be better than he is. I'd say he pretends to be a lot worse. Even though it was close to a rant, it was one of the more tender moments where he was concerned about Nog losing touch with his roots.

 

[Marie1]

What was interesting to me is the fact that for all Quark's ranting- he killed someone when push came to shove in that episode too.

 

[chris32482]

They would.

Can't argue with that...

 

[Gil T.Azell]

^
You're right, however, in the context the Quark was making refrence was that only Human (I can't spell the way that Quark would pronounce Humans) ...

Quark would pronounce Humans HUGH-man. or something like that,
(I saw phonetically spelled here once but can't remember where.)

 

[The Borg Queen]

I bet they wouldn't like it if all the Humans started calling them "furrenji".

 

[Triskelion]

I think there isn't any pretense at all. Humans have the capability of violence. That they strive to rise above it, and to master their baser nature, and have built a civil society despite this aspect of their nature, is a tribute to human mastery over their aggressions - it is not an indictment of self-serving duplicity.

Vulcans are extreme as well, and could have served in Quark's example. However, if you look at it from the Ferengi point of view, they probably never get to such a bloodthirsty state compared with a human. This quality could probably stand for a lot of other races that we don't know enough about; for example, the Pakleds, the Zakdorn, and the El-Aurians to name a few. I'm not saying they can't be sinister - I'm saying they may not emote to the degree of humans and Klingons, but may be more calm and calculating.

Also, there were a lot of humans in the caves at the time. Star Trek is not a show about equal time to all races. In fact I think that's a bit of a conceit to deny it's a show by humans for humans. I think this is one reason why Kirk was so successful a character. He showed us what it means to be human in a vast and puzzling galaxy, and he stuck to his guns. Less of that these days it seems. Cultural relativism must also accept injustice and war of other countries, I wouldn't call that particularly enlightened.

 

[Damask]

What was interesting to me is the fact that for all Quark's ranting- he killed someone when push came to shove in that episode too.

Which wasn't Quarks point though. He wasn't against killing (or defending yourself and your family).

 

[Marie1]

^ But technically thats what the Federation was doing. He'd been captured by the Jem'Hadar before- he knew what they were like, he knew the fear he felt. So the desperation of the young soldiers stuck fighting the Jem'Hadar for months shouldn't have been lost on him, nor should he really be so high and mighty. What Quark was talking about affected people in our past- so we shouldn't be blamed, not should the humans of the Federation born hundreds of years later. Except maybe section 31...

 

[P0sitr0nic]

^
I thought about Vulcans, but I do have my doubts that even they could logically deduce that in spite of their situation, stay cool, calm and above all stay logical...

Not the Vulcans.

The only type I could see would be a species that did not care if they live or die. They did not care about life or death. A species that my their nature are cronic in their depression. As yet, there is no race like that or species.

If there were, they would have died out as a species even before they understood there was life outside their planet.

The Jem Hadar...

 

[Marie1]

^ Exactly.

But we're only talking about uncomfortable and somewhat dangerous conditions. The same as being on a ship- in battle sometimes, being on alert the rest of the time. I'm not sure that that would really damage the Vulcan's hold on their emotions. Or cause emotion to break out... usually.