They did the same thing earlier in Generations with the Enterprise-B. In fact, it was even more perfunctory then, since the original Excelsior model already had fairly large impulse engines that sat clear of the nacelle intakes. They added those huge freakin' extra impulse engines (that some people early on mistook for shuttle landing bays...that glowed red), in addition to the original ones, that blew their whatever-exhaust-they-blow directly into the warp engines. One of the most useless redresses of an existing filming miniature in all of Trek history, IMO.
I liked the bulk added to the Enterprise-B. If the new impulse drives in front of the warp engines gives you issues, consider that they added a dedicated collector to the front of the nacelle that wasn't there in the Excelsior itself. So if there is any real exhaust from the new big impulse engines, than I would think the new collector on the warp nacelles are recyclers, recollecting the ionized gas for use rather than letting go to waste.
Way back in the 70s I picked up on that. I just figured that it took similar technology to create an engine that could go warp speed, hence the twin nacelles. Not bad for a kid who was about 8 or so at the time.
I wouldn't expect to look much like a Starfleet capital ship, as it was apparently a civilian vessel. But pre-TOS-R, it sure did look a heckuva lot like a Tholian ship....
Tho Those two additional Impulse drive units were originally supposed to be Shutlebays- the MSD on the bridge set still had them labeled as such. They were changed to glowing engines after principle photography was finished. i do like the beefed up look of the Enterprise B, except for the added secondary hull chines. i understand why they did it that way, but to me it looks like someone was trying too hard to make it have a touch of galaxy class down there
Those add-ons being shuttlebays have a similar issue as impulse engines, but going in the opposite direction. Shuttles would have one hell of a time making landings, particularly hands-on emergency landings, trying to maneuver around the nacelle tips to get in. I have the same problem with the central pylon supporting the Nebula class' delta pod. The Phoenix-variant's twin supports makes a little more sense, but blocking the path to and from a main shuttlebay, needlessly making landings and launches more difficult than they should be, never seems like a well-thought-out idea to me. In short, I think the E-B would have been fine with the secondary hull add-on, but would have been served better not to have included the extra "boxes" (whatever their purpose) on the primary hull.
Physics should account for or drive design toward a commonality. Look at airplanes or even race cars from similar series. Nobody is designing biplanes or triplanes for cutting edge state of the art design. Why? Laws of physics are universal regardless of origin of design. The same should hold true for starship design. Warp drive is warp drive. The laws of physics should still apply. Whichever system utilizes warp theory the best is the one that all species will eventually gravitate toward. All ships and boats look similar regardless of country of origin. Again, this is due to laws of physics. It's not like Russia or China has kept using flat bottom boats or sail boats because that's their culuture's esthetic. Some design features that don't affect starship performance are going to vary according to species and culture. The same holds true for color schemes. Things that don't matter in regards to physics or starship performance. I'd love to see more non-Starfleet ships. I was happy with what they came up with for the TOS-R version of the Medusan ship. A Federation design that was not a saucer.
The Nebula is a good example of some of the dangers of kit-bashing, even if you're TPTB. That main shuttle bay should have been flipped around to exit in the front of the ship, but that would have cost them more money to design and produce. Look at the less elegant Ambassador we got in place of Probert's. It's okay-looking (and I really wish we saw it more during the Dominion War at least), but it was rushed for the episode. I can't wait for Pacific 201. Not how I imagine the era, but, who cares, it's really thoughtful stuff. Ditto that Velocity ship. It looks a little too primitive for me (like someone strapped nacelles on to part of the ISS), but I'm still excited to see the film. Yeah, as Richard Baker mentioned too, they were initially shuttle bays and problematic there too. I first saw them as such in the graphic novel adaptation of William Shatner's novel The Ashes of Eden. (It was pretty good btw, and I hear the novel was good too -- not as deifying of the character as his later ones.) Maybe if the bays had doors on the sides instead? Maybe if they were cargo bays, not concerned with speedy in/out? Or if they were just additional saucer space? I didn't like the additions to the Excelsior model at first. I thought they ruined the elegance of the original. The cheesy finned Bussard Collectors with their blue(?!) Cylon eyes I thought ruined the sleek Art Deco lines of the original. But it's grown on me in its weird, bulky, way. I kind of think the deflector addition is inspired in a way. It's a little like they added a second saucer to the secondary hull. We've seen starships with multiple secondary hulls; despite the title of this thread, I'd be curious to see one with multiple saucers. Except, come on. It's obvious what those fire red and orange exhaust ports are supposed to be, and we've heard impulse described in such terms in the lit and by people working on the shows. I'd prefer impulse be some futuristic EM technology like something out of The Matrix, or something else (Where's all the exhaust? Doesn't it need a lot of fuel? Did we ever see them moving backwards at impulse? How's that happen without additional engines? Etc.), but that's more or less what's suggested. Because without the warp bubble, time itself slows down and you're moving slower than you want to be? I dunno. I kind of think sublight techs reached their apex a while ago. We see HUGE glowing engine add-ons to designs because they're supposed to appeal to our hips more than our brains. Berman said he wanted the E to look like a Porsche. It's smaller, more gaunt, probably has no families, and a lot of fans call it a battleship. I'm not moved.
I didn't post this yesterday, but re 22nd Century tech: They could also have done more with different special effects and technologies. I mentioned nuclear torpedoes, for example. No photons yet. Maybe rail guns and laser canons, and maybe one phaser "main weapon" port in the middle of the ship, like it's the Future Enterprise's from "All Good Things..." if you want to take it there. Maybe the first-generation deflector shields have a hazy, staticky, look about them when raised, and you can see them even before they're hit by incoming weapons fire. Maybe energy weapons dissipate upon hitting their outer layer, but depending on their strength, they're not fully blocked by the deflecting static, and you see some of the beam reach the thick, anti-nuclear warhead, hull. (No thinner duranium hulls yet.) That is, if you want shields at all, this early. I didn't mind ENT using polarized hull plates or self-guiding grappling hooks instead of tractor beams at first, before they went full "Polarized hull down to 30%, captain!" silliness. Maybe it would have been cool if the polarization glowed or hummed (inside the ship) a bit or though? ...Some thoughts. I'm not married to them.
You mean for this early Romulan ship I mention in my thread on Romulan ships here? Nah, I think the Romulans being tech thieves is overdone. That happened one time, then a Romulan-Klingon alliance shared tech, but they're the same species as the Vulcans and can do anything they put their minds to. Plus, Kirk stole Romulan tech for us too, and the Vor'cha attack cruiser's supposed to look a little like it's the result of a Federation-Klingon tech alliance too, so it happens. I think they were initially stunted by having to find a new homeworld (the Diane Duane novels mention they lost a lot on the arduous odyssey to find one, and the Margaret Wander Bonanno Romulan novel mentions a plague they still scare their children with that messed them up upon arrival...and also I imagine all their internal politics and wars and family dramas ate up a lot of effort), but they caught up. ...apparently even their slaves (lugging duranium rocks around in their pockets, doing equations on the walls, and fashioning shivs and other tools) Shawshank Redemption-ed their way to freedom.
Researching another thread reply, I found these curious designs: Balclutha Corvette - reminds me of some of Jackill's corvette designs NX Corvette Star runner Corvette Reply #18 in this thread has an interesting stardrive section that's meant to look good sans saucer. I could imagine this as a corvette too. With some adjustments, I think this also works...teeheehee Then, of course, there's: Double Saucer Configuration - I think there are two nacelles above the saucers
I know right? I mean where would they come up with such an unlikely concept as space vessels that look like flying saucers? This is rather like saying Jedi overuse saber designs that are lighted. Back when Star Trek was created, I'm pretty sure that the expectation of spaceships being saucers was held by e v e r y b o d y After that, it became a brand identifier. If people turn on a tv in Kuala Lumpur & see a saucership with legs sticking off the back of it, guess what they know they are watching? It's called brand recognition, & it is one of the many reasons this show is iconic. A little deviation from that is fine, but ultimately, you embrace the public image. That's just good business
No, I don't think so. Because there's a difference between brand recognition and brand dilution. Did you read the thread? Hell, let's make every ship in the franchise a saucer with nacelles and just change the color to depict loyalty. The fans will immediately know what they're watching. That's ridiculous. What really set Trek apart from other sci-fi of its day was its verisimilitude. And I think what got Trek cancelled last time around was that it was cheesy and bad. Most people didn't care about the fake future. Production values were up but it wasn't True. In this thread, I've argued that we remember to do more than plug in visual punchlines, like some bad sitcom in its umpteenth season, and remember what made it popular in the first place.
Fans? Who's talking about fans? I'm talking about tv viewers. I'm not saying Trek never aspired to represent loftier principles & present brave new concepts. Of course they did, but C'mon. Let's be honest here. They relied on a great many tricks of the trade when putting together their show too, so it would have some broad appeal & visual markers, & making ships that are instantly recognizable is easily one of the most prominent. When some non-fan turns on a show & sees an orange car with a 01 on it they know what that is. When they see a saucership with legs on its port, they know what that is too. We can spend all day here on BBS praising the great things about this show, but ultimately it was a tv show, & that meant they had to rely on pretty mundane things at times, like endless rubber foreheads, & uniforms that have only 3 colors. While the show broke new barriers, & experimented a lot, they also played things safe & simple at times. It's a demand of the format. Harping on that minutia is a bit petty & misses the point imho When Max Fleischer was asked about the varied style of his 2 most popular cartoons, Popeye & Superman. He explained that when you tell a story that is mundane like an ordinary sailor, with a girlfriend, who wins fights because he eats his vegetables, you make the style the outlandish thing to compensate, but when it's an alien from Krypton with superhuman powers, then the story is what's outlandish, and the style should be rather plain to counter it. Star Trek keeps the uniforms & Starfleet ships simplistic for that same reason. It's a cinematically sound practice