Saucer Separation

[Mytran]

If the Main Bridge were more or less where the Battle Bridge ended up, it would still be accessible for upgrades by simply removing the saucer. There could still be windows out the back as well!

As for the saucer being an escape vehicle, I strongly suspect it would FTL capability of some kind. However, even if it didn't it is a massive vessel in it's own right and with two whopping fusion engines to provide power could doubtless sustain its occupants for as long as needed until help arrived.

 

[Timo]

If the saucer section is sublight speed only that means that wherever you are you likely won't get to any habitable planet before years have come and gone. The only hope is to be rescued by another ship and depending on where you are that could take years as well.

Add to this that in "Encounter at Farpoint", the saucer did cross interstellar distances after separation. The separation supposedly took place at warp speeds (even if the VFX doesn't show those expensive warp streaks), so perhaps the saucer can sustain warp if separated at warp? But if so, why did LaForge separate the saucer at impulse in "Arsenal of Freedom" when he could just as well have given it an initial warp boost?

It's ultimately up to us the audience to decide whether the saucer is independently capable of accelerating to respectable warp speeds or not. The episodes lack proof to the contrary, but the author intent of the saucer not being capable of warp is also well known. The deciding point is probably how one views "Brothers", where our heroes say that forced separation would drop the saucer to sublight in minutes - but it's a case of our heroes actively trying to drop the saucer to sublight, i.e. an exceptional situation where much more than mere separation is likely to be going on.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[SPCTRE]

The Star Trek Encyclopedia mentioned a combination of budget constraints and episode pacing problems as reasons as to why saucer separation was not used regularly (as originally intended).

 

[MikeS]

The TOS ship wasn't allowed to be a flying saucer (because those were sooo 1950s), but it got a saucer hull nevertheless. Fine, have it be a giant separable frisbee that lands on planets. Except that was nixed because planetfall was expensive to shoot. Fine, reserve that as an emergency maneuver, never to actually be seen. Except even the very potential never made it into dialogue...

It made it into dialogue. The Apple

 

[Timo]

Well, sort of. We learn of the ability to jettison the nacelles, and then there's mention of a "main section", whatever that is. Might be the saucer, might be everything but the nacelles.

Even if it's the saucer, this is further case of a forgotten or misused premise: escaping from Vaal's planet would not call for the escape vehicle to be a flying saucer. The aerodynamic shape remains unexplained.

In-universe, the whole saucer thing does get nailed down when it saves they day in ST:GEN. So it's far from an "inconsistency" or a "missed opportunity" in the wider view. But it does take its sweet time becoming an onscreen feature and a relatable, plausible pseudo-fact.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[kirkfan]

I still don't get what so special about reattaching it manually. I mean Riker only said a few words in that scene and none were particularly vital to the people doing the reattaching. Would he have been really missed if he wasn't there?

 

[Squiggy]

If the saucer section is sublight speed only that means that wherever you are you likely won't get to any habitable planet before years have come and gone. The only hope is to be rescued by another ship and depending on where you are that could take years as well.

Add to this that in "Encounter at Farpoint", the saucer did cross interstellar distances after separation. The separation supposedly took place at warp speeds (even if the VFX doesn't show those expensive warp streaks), so perhaps the saucer can sustain warp if separated at warp? But if so, why did LaForge separate the saucer at impulse in "Arsenal of Freedom" when he could just as well have given it an initial warp boost?

And from Brothers

WESLEY
(studying a panel)
He is on the Bridge, sir.

PICARD
Commander La Forge, prepare for
saucer separation.

WESLEY
Sir, we're at Warp nine-three!

PICARD
I'm aware of the risks, Ensign.
(to Geordi)
When the umbilical splits, we
should regain primary control...
do you agree?

GEORDI
(getting the plan)
Yes, sir.

PICARD
(to Worf)
. Be
prepared to sweep back and pull
it in with a tractor beam.

WORF
Aye, sir.

PICARD
(to Geordi)
Initiate auto sequence.

That's implying that there is no saucer warp. Otherwise there'd be no sweeping back to get them.

 

[kirkfan]

^To me it seems like they didn't think this through.

 

[Timo]

I still don't get what so special about reattaching it manually.

It's just Picard making Riker prove that he has read the manual and knows the buzzwords. This is a rare and spectacular piece of Starfleet hardware, after all: only an officer who has really done his homework could know this stuff.

Of course, Picard realizes Riker must know this stuff forward and backward, otherwise he wouldn't be there. But telling him to go through this as such mindless drill is classic military practice that builds up confidence in Riker; between Riker and Picard; and between Riker and the crew he is expected to command.

So IMHO a rather amusing piece of military realism...

That's implying that there is no saucer warp. Otherwise there'd be no sweeping back to get them.

...But as said, the point is that our heroes are sabotaging Data's efforts. Their aim here is to sabotage Data's ability to travel at warp. That they succeed does not mean that the saucer cannot travel at warp; it only means the heroes are a resourceful bunch.

If we assume independent saucer warp, then "Encounter at Farpoint" and "Arsenal of Freedom" both make sense, and "Brothers" isn't hurt much. If we assume saucer lacks warp, then two episodes fail to make sense. It's up to us to choose...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Squiggy]

Pretty sure if there was any possibility of Data traveling at warp while in total control of the saucer alone, he would've.

And, as has repeatedly been pointed out...there's no warp system on the MSD. Nor is it ever mentioned when it would've been great to mention it. You're inferring from a lack of evidence to the contrary.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Sorry, what's the MSD?

 

[Mytran]

Master Systems Display, that big cross section of the ship that appears in the E-D Engine Room. As well as the lack of a specific FTL system, it also features a giant rubber duck and a WW2 fighter plane! So, make of that what you will.

 

[Vanyel]

In "Best of Both Worlds", Shelby suggests separating the saucer to give the Borg more than one target. Riker dismisses the idea saying they could use the power from the saucers impulse engines. If the saucer has warp drive wouldn't the Saucers warp engine's extra power be of greater importance than the impulse engines? Also if it had warp capabilities, in Generations, the Saucer could have punched it to warp to get far away from the exploding Stardrive. In "Brothers" Data locked them out of all the ships controls. He could have also locked them out of the Stardrive's controls, ditched them and warped off with the saucer knowing there would be no way for the Stardrive to follow.

I think that the saucer only has a warp sustainer, like the photon torpedoes have, which would allow the saucer to coast at warp speeds for a long enough time to get them out of danger. Also if it's far enough away it can call for help for the Stardrive section as well as itself.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Master Systems Display, that big cross section of the ship that appears in the E-D Engine Room

Thanks!

 

[Timo]

Pretty sure if there was any possibility of Data traveling at warp while in total control of the saucer alone, he would've.

But that's it - our heroes were taking control away from Data, bit by bit. Splitting the ship in two would have been but one step in the process.

And, as has repeatedly been pointed out...there's no warp system on the MSD. Nor is it ever mentioned when it would've been great to mention it. You're inferring from a lack of evidence to the contrary.

The MSD is incredibly weak evidence against the actual plotlines of the episodes, where "EaF" explicates prolonged solo travel at relatively high warp and "AoF" implies ability to cross interstellar distances from a standstill start.

There is no MSD of the saucer, mind you. Only of the combined ship - and, on the Battle Bridge, of the stardrive section, after a fashion. In-universe, I'm sure the warp system symbols on the saucer MSD would light up at the moment of separation, down at Saucer Engineering where engineers would perform the necessary dance to bring the warp core online (an operation Data alone might have been incapable of performing).

Combine that to the lack of explicit mention of warp inability as regards the saucer, and you will be tempted to interpret "Brothers" to match the bulk of evidence rather than some contradictory backstage idea.

(Also, for giggles, throw in the mysterious empty spaces in the Sternbach blueprints right where the saucer has these areas of intense blue "warp glow"... Having a pair of warp engines there would also be something that doesn't show in an MSD, which generally depicts the ship centerline only.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Ithekro]

The thought goes to having the paired impulse drives be able to push the saucer to low warp speeds (warp three...maybe). This would be enough speed to be able to get it to another star system within reason.

For the situation in Generations, there probably wasn't time to get the saucer's impulse engines up to warp since the stardrive blew up before they have even settled a course, knocking her out of orbit and taking enough systems offline that they couldn't regain orbit and instead crash landed.

For Brothers, even if Data managed to take the saucer into warp, the Stardrive should be able to catch is easily. Even with a lockout, LaForge should be able to get it unlocked before the saucer can even cross a parsec. Well within sensor range and easy to catch and tractor in.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

The thought goes to having the paired impulse drives be able to push the saucer to low warp speeds (warp three...maybe).

Super-duper unlikely.

 

[Timo]

In "Best of Both Worlds", Shelby suggests separating the saucer to give the Borg more than one target. Riker dismisses the idea saying they could use the power from the saucers impulse engines. If the saucer has warp drive wouldn't the Saucers warp engine's extra power be of greater importance than the impulse engines?

The saucer impulse engines can provide propulsive power in Riker's scenario of attached flight (and indeed in the Dominion War, Galaxy class ships fly with their saucer impulse engines lit, even if Riker's vision here came to naught). Saucer warp engines might be incapable of doing that except in Shelby's scenario of separated flight.

Also if it had warp capabilities, in Generations, the Saucer could have punched it to warp to get far away from the exploding Stardrive.

Not in the time allocated. They didn't even have time to punch in the impulse drive, apparently - it is explicitly capable of multi-hundred-gee accelerations at the very least, but here the saucer makes less than one gee (unless it was all shot in slow motion).

In "Brothers" Data locked them out of all the ships controls.

Not the ones controlling separation...

Clearly, Data was fighting but a delaying act against an ultimately invincible foe with his lock-up act. He just didn't predict the shortcuts our heroes were able to take in their fight to get control back.

I think that the saucer only has a warp sustainer, like the photon torpedoes have, which would allow the saucer to coast at warp speeds for a long enough time to get them out of danger.

But that doesn't account for "Farpoint", where the saucer only takes a few hours more than the stardrive section to cover a distance that amounts to several minutes at extreme warp. Are we supposed to think that in fleeing from Q, the combined ship only covered a distance of a lighthour or so? Supposedly, warp nine already gives at least three hundred billion km per 20 minutes ("Bloodlines"), that is, a million lightseconds per 20 min, or a hundred thousand per the evident 2 minutes of flight. That's more than a light-day, yet the combined ship was going much faster than warp nine, and the saucer wasn't delayed by even one full day in backtracking that flight.

Also if it's far enough away it can call for help for the Stardrive section as well as itself.

Or the stardrive section or the combined ship can do that all by itself.

It seems the point of the separation scheme was that the ship would be so far away from all other assets that the only location of safety around would be the separated saucer. The skipper would just have to pick a suitable spot for this, hide the saucer there, and warp into danger (hopefully via a dogleg that would keep the enemy from discovering where the saucer had been left).

If the saucer is capable of warp, though, as in the pilot episode, then it will suffice to simply leave it standing off at a suitable distance to monitor the possible fight. If the enemy disengages the fight and goes after the saucer, he's pinned between two warp-capable Starfleet assets! If he can outrun the stardrive section, then there's no saving any part of the ship anyway; if he can't, he will be getting his backside peppered with torpedoes and phasers while running towards further phasers (and, reputedly, torpedoes, even though we never saw evidence of the putative saucer launcher).

Then again, whatever the rationale for the separation maneuver, Starfleet clearly stopped believing in it at some point. Perhaps it sucked from the get-go; perhaps something about the nature of the threat changed (say, the average Klingon or Cardassian got faster than the saucer's warp engines).

Timo Saloniemi

 

[kirkfan]

IOW, it's unlikely that the saucer separation would be of any use in a combat situation except making the children that would be left there a much more tempting target to the attacking force than the other section given that the latter is smaller and much more maneuverable.

 

[Timo]

Exactly. If the separation did increase combat odds, then certainly we should have seen it more often - the E-D quite often ended up having to fight.

Although they basically never had advance understanding that they were going to be the underdogs and in need of force multipliers, such as against the Zalkonians or the Tamarians or the Borg. If they did, perhaps they would have separated in preparation for those specific fights? The saucer does have potent phasers, and maneuverability is irrelevant in Trek combat anyway.

Timo Saloniemi