I think even more puzzling to me is the fact that each shuttle has warp drive. Although it makes sense for them to get anywhere, that would mean each one has a warp core. when that because breached, what do they separate?
Saucer sections and warp drive
- Thread starter gastrof
- Start date
It's unlikely that all warp cores are prone to spontaneous kabooming. Just the high-strung supercores of big starships are.
It would be a bit like the difference between the engine of your family sedan (which doesn't break down unless badly maintained) and the engine of a Formula 1 racer (which basically is designed to break down in every race, and the trick is in making it go kaboom just as the car passes the finishing line - if it survives significantly longer than that, the engineers have taken insufficient risks in ensuring top performance!).
Warp core ejection doesn't seem to be necessary to ensure the safety of a crashing runabout. Say, Sisko jettisoned the antimatter fuel tank in "Battle Lines", but O'Brien brought down the craft to a safe landing without such measures in "Hippocratic Oath"...
To be frank, we don't know whether all shuttles really have warp drives. All of them do seem to have nacelles, but those might contain sublight gear, or be simple landing pontoons. But personally, I have no problem with the idea that low warp performance craft can be powered by a risk-free powerplant. (Or if a risk emerges, it's more practical to jettison the crew than the core - as seen for example in VOY "Day of Honor".)
Timo Saloniemi
It would be a bit like the difference between the engine of your family sedan (which doesn't break down unless badly maintained) and the engine of a Formula 1 racer (which basically is designed to break down in every race, and the trick is in making it go kaboom just as the car passes the finishing line - if it survives significantly longer than that, the engineers have taken insufficient risks in ensuring top performance!).
Warp core ejection doesn't seem to be necessary to ensure the safety of a crashing runabout. Say, Sisko jettisoned the antimatter fuel tank in "Battle Lines", but O'Brien brought down the craft to a safe landing without such measures in "Hippocratic Oath"...
To be frank, we don't know whether all shuttles really have warp drives. All of them do seem to have nacelles, but those might contain sublight gear, or be simple landing pontoons. But personally, I have no problem with the idea that low warp performance craft can be powered by a risk-free powerplant. (Or if a risk emerges, it's more practical to jettison the crew than the core - as seen for example in VOY "Day of Honor".)
Timo Saloniemi
The Technical Manual says many things, some of them highly entertaining when compared to what is actually shown in real episodes. Even with the participation of fine people like Rich Sternbach and Michael Okudo.
[ Puts in tape to play the ``Faster-Than-Light Impulse'' recording. ]
[ Looks farther down the thread. ]
[ Puts in tape about ``How could it possibly make sense for the saucer not to be able to land and take off again''. ]
hellsgate
Commodore
The Daikyu-Class --- A Rapier-Class & A Sovereign-Class, merged as a lethal Anti-Borg/Dominion Hunter-Killer.
http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/startrekfanfiction/Vessel.html
http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/startrekfanfiction/Vessel.html
ST:TMP got this right with the shuttlecraft Surak and it's detachable warpsled.
Hey wow. that ship is really coolio. It's like the Defiant's more kick ass child. This is nice work, I like this design. Usually I don't go for the more 'battleship' oriented ships but this one is sleek and practical in feel, like a war-time design. Though the impulse engines should be centered to the rear not blasting the warp nacelles, I reckon.
I gush.
It looks like it would be right at home in the Yesterday's Enterprise parallel timeline.
/Set all weapons to maximum!
/Set all weapons to maximum!
I figure that if the saucer had to get away from the rest of the ship, fast (as in *Generations*), they could indirectly accomplish this via a remote command to the engineering section to orient itself and warp away at top speed.
Of course, plot requirements may override the remote control.
Of course, plot requirements may override the remote control.
I actually agree with that. It seems odd.
If it's about to explode in a matter of minutes, launching the stardrive away at warp would be essentially turn it into the biggest photon torpedo ever launched.
Kewl...
hellsgate
Commodore
http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/startrekfanfiction/Vessel.html
The Daikyu-Class was the Prometheus-Class's annoying little brother, a stand-in/understudy in the event the U.S.S. Prometheus itself somehow tanked during its shakedown.
(Conjoined)
Max. Velocity: Warp 9.72
(Separated - Stardrive)
Max Velocity: Warp 9.7383
(Separated - Saucer Section)
Max. Velocity: Warp 8.2147
The saucer section has two "Type X" phaser cannons in addition to two Klingon/Romulan-style forward disruptor lances. The Saucer Section has Klingon style bunks in lieu of comfortable suites, a mess hall style replimat & no luxuries aside from a tiny infirmary & necessary cargo bays. It has nodes capable of emitting an (exterior) phased mass holographic masking system to disguise itself, which fools only long range passive sensor sweeps & cannot pass rigorous short range scans. The saucer section cannot achieve slipstream (even temporarily) without being conjoinned with the stardrive section. This configuration of the Defiant-Class, mated to the Sovereign-Class stardrive section, was the Klingon Empire's latest attempt at their own Borg Hunter-Killer, such as their own Klalath-Class.
The Achillies' heel of this design is there is insufficient load capacity to keep the phased mass holographic masking device armed if the shields, phasers or disruptors are raised, charged and / or fired.
Raising shields, firing either disruptors/phasers AND using the phased mass holographic masking device will burn out the EPS relays throughout the ship and fail (which can't be good for the computer cores either) and the ship will become extremely vulnerable.
You have to choose between one or the other. Firepower and shields; or, your disguise. There is far too little power to have your cake & eat it too.
The Daikyu-Class was to be the joint Klingon/Federation flag-ship of Starfleet's ungainly "Frankenstein Fleet" that included such eyesores as the Yeager-Class, the U.S.S. Budapest (Norway-Class) & other refitted (little-seen) Phase II re-designs. It includes "easy access" universal, interchangeable ODN/EPS adaptors for both Federation & Klingon hardware/software.
The U.S.S. Buckingham was eventually shelved & temporarily deactivated, pending another all out confrontation with the Borg.
The Dominion War saw the Daikyu-Class brought out of mothballs momentarily, & its' two-part M.V.A.M. activated on one occasion to rescue the crew of a Regula-Class science station keeping watch over a string of subspace relays located along the Klingon / Federation Border. A joint Klingon-Federation crew were assigned to the Buckingham & responded. Moderate casualties were inflicted on both sides, when a Dominion Supercarrier was discovered to be responsible for the unscheduled communications silence.
The U.S.S. Buckingham is being upgraded with technologies from the U.S.S. Voyager's database gleaned from the Delta Quadrant. However, it's unlikely to be seen again unless another Wolf 359-scale invasion occurs. Includes two Archangel-Class runabouts in the stardrive section's aft shuttlebay.
Several "sensitive" and controversial systems being proposed for the Daikyu-Class U.S.S. Buckingham would be considered "acts of war" (except in times of an impending shooting-war with the Borg Collective) according to several treaties including the Treaty Of Algeron & The Gamma Quadrant Peaceful Exploration Treaty that enabled cessation of hostilities at DS9.
The Daikyu-Class was the Prometheus-Class's annoying little brother, a stand-in/understudy in the event the U.S.S. Prometheus itself somehow tanked during its shakedown.
(Conjoined)
Max. Velocity: Warp 9.72
(Separated - Stardrive)
Max Velocity: Warp 9.7383
(Separated - Saucer Section)
Max. Velocity: Warp 8.2147
The saucer section has two "Type X" phaser cannons in addition to two Klingon/Romulan-style forward disruptor lances. The Saucer Section has Klingon style bunks in lieu of comfortable suites, a mess hall style replimat & no luxuries aside from a tiny infirmary & necessary cargo bays. It has nodes capable of emitting an (exterior) phased mass holographic masking system to disguise itself, which fools only long range passive sensor sweeps & cannot pass rigorous short range scans. The saucer section cannot achieve slipstream (even temporarily) without being conjoinned with the stardrive section. This configuration of the Defiant-Class, mated to the Sovereign-Class stardrive section, was the Klingon Empire's latest attempt at their own Borg Hunter-Killer, such as their own Klalath-Class.
The Achillies' heel of this design is there is insufficient load capacity to keep the phased mass holographic masking device armed if the shields, phasers or disruptors are raised, charged and / or fired.
Raising shields, firing either disruptors/phasers AND using the phased mass holographic masking device will burn out the EPS relays throughout the ship and fail (which can't be good for the computer cores either) and the ship will become extremely vulnerable.
You have to choose between one or the other. Firepower and shields; or, your disguise. There is far too little power to have your cake & eat it too.
The Daikyu-Class was to be the joint Klingon/Federation flag-ship of Starfleet's ungainly "Frankenstein Fleet" that included such eyesores as the Yeager-Class, the U.S.S. Budapest (Norway-Class) & other refitted (little-seen) Phase II re-designs. It includes "easy access" universal, interchangeable ODN/EPS adaptors for both Federation & Klingon hardware/software.
The U.S.S. Buckingham was eventually shelved & temporarily deactivated, pending another all out confrontation with the Borg.
The Dominion War saw the Daikyu-Class brought out of mothballs momentarily, & its' two-part M.V.A.M. activated on one occasion to rescue the crew of a Regula-Class science station keeping watch over a string of subspace relays located along the Klingon / Federation Border. A joint Klingon-Federation crew were assigned to the Buckingham & responded. Moderate casualties were inflicted on both sides, when a Dominion Supercarrier was discovered to be responsible for the unscheduled communications silence.
The U.S.S. Buckingham is being upgraded with technologies from the U.S.S. Voyager's database gleaned from the Delta Quadrant. However, it's unlikely to be seen again unless another Wolf 359-scale invasion occurs. Includes two Archangel-Class runabouts in the stardrive section's aft shuttlebay.
Several "sensitive" and controversial systems being proposed for the Daikyu-Class U.S.S. Buckingham would be considered "acts of war" (except in times of an impending shooting-war with the Borg Collective) according to several treaties including the Treaty Of Algeron & The Gamma Quadrant Peaceful Exploration Treaty that enabled cessation of hostilities at DS9.
hellsgate, why do you keep posting stuff like that?
For what it is worth, in 1975 Franz Joseph (Schnaubelt) released his "Starfleet Technical Manual" which had dreadnoughts with 3 warp engines. The third engine was mounted on the saucer, here are pictures. If Gene Roddenberry and Franz did not have a their falling out in the mid 1970s we might have seen the "future" Enterprise-1701D in the last TNG episode "All Good Things..." with that 3rd engine mounted on the saucer instead of it being mounted on the secondary (engineering) hull. Franz past away in 1994 and his daughter Karen (Schnaubelt) Dick admitted she looked closely to see if her father's idea was being illegally used. She would have sued if they had that 3rd engine on the saucer for copyright infringement. Here is the link .
Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
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Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
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A saucer warp drive doesn't need to be an actual nacelle sticking out. It can be a narrow blue strip that glows and that's it.
Really, now.
Whatever respect I had for Karen Dick (that is, enormous), evaporated in a puff of disgust as I read this. How sad can a person become? Although to be fair, it doesn't seem that the linked interviews truly back this up: it's more like she was on a quest to protect the whole kit and kaboodle of her father's intellectual property, that is, the graphics and text of the Tech Manual, against rather wanton misuse by RPG companies.
But to consider the idea of a third nacelle on a fictional starship "intellectual property"... That's just plain disgusting.
Timo Saloniemi
Timo,
You are correct. The link in my previous post to the Karen (Schnaubelt) Dick Interview, in it she does not explicitly state that she would have sued Paramount for copyright infringement of her father's intellectual property. A poor choice of words on my part (I was tired at the time I posted it). I should have said I believe she would have sued Paramount if Paramount had connected that 3rd warp engine nacelle to the saucer instead of the engineering hull. Why else would she have examined the 3 engine future Enterprise-1701D frame-by-frame?
The interview is 6 pages long, consisting of 23 questions. My link displays Page 4 with Question 13 at the top. However, people are able to move forward and backward from that point of the interview if they want to read all of it. At the end of the interview she gives her email address, which is franzjosephdesigns@yahoo.com, in case you want to ask her about her response to Question 13.
Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\
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