Saucer Sections and Their Engines

[Wingsley]

Here's a weird contradiction in STAR TREK:

A starship can travel at high warp. A shuttlecraft can travel at at least low-warp. ("The Menagerie," "Metamorphosis") But if the saucer separates, it cannot travel at warp at all? Does that make sense?

We've never seen direct evidence of a Constitution-class saucer separating. It's safe to assume it can. What would its capabilities be, once separated? What about the later ships called Enterprise? (Excelsior, Ambassador, Galaxy, Sovereign classes)

In "Conspiracy", Riker is in command an he orders the ship to Warp 6. LaForge replies: "Aye, sir. Full impulse." Could this be construed as a test-firing of the saucer's mini-warp engines (perhaps embedded, like Sisko's Defiant, into the main hull) at full power?

 

[Kaziarl]

I think the main problem with the saucer having warp is space. The shuttles and the defiant make room for the warp core. The saucer, which has the primary purpose of a life boat, needs as much space as it can to hold the entire crew. So not only the core, but the necelles would take up quite a bit of room.


That being said, I still think they could do it.

 

[Plecostomus]

I see no reason they couldn't do it. Perhaps instead of a full-blown warp-drive they have some kind of field sustainer, if they separate at warp-speed the impulse-engines drive the sustainer and keep the field active allowing the saucer to sort of glide along at warp speed.

Perhaps later builds of the Galaxy Class have full-blown warp-drive in the saucer, advances in technology would allow them to build a full-scale warp-drive that doesn't take up as much space.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

In "Conspiracy", Riker is in command an he orders the ship to Warp 6. LaForge replies: "Aye, sir. Full impulse." Could this be construed as a test-firing of the saucer's mini-warp engines (perhaps embedded, like Sisko's Defiant, into the main hull) at full power?

That was just a writing goof.

 

[Timo]

Whether shuttles have warp is debatable in TOS and TNG: none are ever seen at explicit warp speeds, and even the examples of "The Menagerie" and "Metamorphosis" might be construed to show sublight, interplanetary travel rather than interstellar movement. It's only in VOY that we begin to see shuttles go to warp - but we see there that types introduced in TNG are capable of warp, and we have no reason to think that this would be a new capability for them...

Whether Galaxy saucers have independent warp is surprisingly clear-cut: "Encounter at Farpoint" indicates they do, and no other episode indicates otherwise.

Whether any other saucers have warp is unknown. But consider this: as saucer separation seems to be an extremely rare emergency maneuver, the warp drive aboard the saucer would only be used once in a ship's lifetime, if that. Would it be worth the while to install something like that? Odds are, it wouldn't even work after the decades-long dormancy. The only practical role for the saucer seems to be to act as an emergency landing craft if the rest of the ship goes kaboom. If the kaboom happens in deep, deep space, then it may well be that the best Starfleet can do with its technology is say "Sorry, guys, you're all dead". That's what current superpower navies with their top technology say to the victims of a submarine accident in mid-ocean, or to the victims of an attack jet crash at treetops level, and so forth. It just isn't worth the while to install some sort of a titanium survival sphere in the subs or a super-duper escape pod in the jets, even if this were technologically possible.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Good]

IIRC, the TNG tech manual mentions "warp sustainer coils" or something to that effect for the Saucer. It's not able to go into warp on its own, but it can grab the warp field of the stardrive section and "coast" for a while before dropping out of warp. This would explain Farpoint quite neatly.

 

[Timo]

But it wouldn't, as the saucer is shown performing a significant interstellar voyage after separation - not a short hop of a few hours let alone the two minutes the manual suggests, but a journey that retraces the flight of the combined ship from Q, a flight that was performed at extreme warp for several minutes at least.

Okay, so perhaps the saucer really requires an initial boost from a vessel equipped with conventional nacelles. Beyond that, however, it must perform much better than the TNG TM claims. And in "Arsenal of Freedom", the heroes deliberately release the saucer at sublight speeds, not at warp, which would make no sense if release at warp gave the saucer an extra boost towards safety. It thus seems that there is no crucial gain from the warp release maneuver, and that the saucer can achieve at least medium warp all on its own.

One wonders if the gigantic yet strangely sparsely populated Galaxy saucer isn't an engineering necessity dictated by the fact that it is the first saucer to feature full internal warp propulsion...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Wingsley]

There are a couple of interesting twists and turns in this discussion: look at Sisko's warship Defiant. Is it not a saucer with built-in warp drive? Sisko's warship could fly at least Warp 8, IIRC.

Why couldn't a saucer have at least limited warp capability? It doesn't have to be able to sustain high warp or a very long voyage. Let's assume, for sake of argument, that the E-D's saucer had a cruising speed of Warp 3-4, and a redline of Warp 6, and that it could sustain cruising speed for a couple of months on its own. Wouldn't that make sense? What would it violate in the STAR TREK Universe?

 

[Kaziarl]

Yes, but the Defiant has what? 4 decks and 20 people? On top of that, their core is small due to modern tech. The core on the enterprise was huge, and if I recall from the schematics, it was as tall as the stardrive section, minus the neck of course.

 

[Wingsley]

According to this Memory Alpha article, the Defiant-class vessels were capable of speeds exceeding Warp 9 and had a crew of about 50. I assume this information was derived from the content of the DS9 series, and it seems about right.

 

[Kaziarl]

Yeah, small crew means room for warp core. I'm not saying I don't like the idea of the saucer section being able to go to warp, I'm just offering a possibility of why it couldn't. I know in one of the books they were experimenting with a saucer for the Galaxy Class that could go to warp, but beyond that, I don't know of anything.

 

[Wingsley]

Please keep in mind that I'm not advocating the notion that the E-D's or her sisterships' saucers could go Warp 8 all by themselves. I'm definitely not saying that.

But I would think that it would be wise to give a saucer (especially one that accommodates civvie personnel) the ability to escape at limited warp velocity.

Another notion from "The Corbomite Maneuver" nags at me: Kirk orders Sulu to add "impulse power, too" to the attempt to break free of Balok's tractor beam. Unless impulse reactors have some capability beyond mere sublight propulsion, the power they would add would seem to be inconsequential. OTOH, if impulse drives had some kind of limited, built-in warp technology, maybe it would make sense.

 

[AlxxlA]

Also, how did they fit not one, not two, but THREE warp cores in the USS Prometheus?

And while I'm on the topic, Wingsley, in response to your comment about The Corbromite Maneuver, wasn't the Enterprise still at sublight speeds, given that it was still in the tractor beam?

 

[Wingsley]

Correct, but Kirk ordered Sulu to apply warp power first to break free from Balok's tractor beam, then the engines began to superheat at over 8000 degrees, then Kirk ordered "Now, Sulu. Impulse power, too!"

 

[Deks]

Also, how did they fit not one, not two, but THREE warp cores in the USS Prometheus?

Quite simple.
The Prometheus is not a big ship when fully connected (about the same size of Voyager if not a bit larger), is extremely automated (requiring small amount of crew to operate/maintain) and when it separates into 3 even smaller ships, it's not a big problem to fit 3 warp cores similar to those on the Defiant class (but a bit more advanced given the fact the ship was made years after the Defiant was put into service).

Quite simple really, and effective too when it combats against an enemy whose only real advantage is in numbers and not technology.
Separating the ship provides more targets with firepower equal to a fully connected version but with a bit reduced shield strength.

 

[Tigger]

Personally, I think the Galaxy's planned mission profiles make a warp-capable saucer a necessity, not a nicety. These gals were expected to roam well beyond the last Federation starbase and I can't see them putting all their eggs in one warp system. Allowing the saucer to at least "limp" along at Warp 4 or so for a few months in an emergency that causes the loss of the stardrive makes eminent sense to me.

 

[Santaman]

Also it could be that impulse power is FTL capable but not quite like a true warpdrive.

 

[Pythonidae]

saucer sections have no nacelles, no nacelles = no warp

 

[Manticore]

saucer sections have no nacelles, no nacelles = no warp

However, we've seen several apparently warp-capable ships without nacelles, and a few that apparently aren't with.

 

[Unicron]

Indeed, like the Cardassian Galors and the Klingon BOPs. The presence of nacelles is irrelevant to having warp drive, all you need is a warp core.