Sarek; Bad dad?

[RobertScorpio]

From all that we know of Sarek was he, in the end, a bad dad? He seemed to be,at least, a closet racist with his views of humanity and the way he seems to look down his nose at us. He tries to turn spock away from star fleet for scientific reasons, so he says, but then he seems to say, in TUC, that his friends are of good character, implying that he once thought Kirk and company weren't of sound character...

Then we have Sybok (who I do consider canon) and that guy is totally on the wrong track for a vulcan, in fact, a pure vulcan (which is why he IS such an interesting character Mr. Roddenberry (RIP))...

So..in the end..was Sarek a good/bad, or like all fathers, a little of both..

Rob
Scopio

 

[Michael]

In a way I think he was a bad father because he didn't accept his son the way he is and always seemed to wish he was something different.

But that doesn't take away from him being an interesting character.

 

[Joshua Howard]

To say that Sarek is a "bad dad" certainly does not do him justice. Of note, Sarek probably would not use the word "dad" or the word "bad" in conversation; to the contrary, he would say "poor father."

Sarek is an extremist, as are all Vulcans. To prove my point, look at Sybok - You see that he was also an extremist, but just in a different way. Extremism leads to pain, because it doesn't feel - or accept anything other than a certain absolute principle.

Humanity feels joy and pain; The human mind is 2 parts instinct and 1 part instinctive reason. The vulcan has no joy or pain, because he bypasses the emotional qualities for pure intellectualism. In the process, anyone - or anything - that feels joy or pain or is not of an intelligent nature - is not understood.

Perhaps I could wrap this thought up well by saying "Is there no beauty in logic?" The answer is no, and yet that is exactly why logic is beautiful.

 

[RobertScorpio]

To say that Sarek is a "bad dad" certainly does not do him justice. Of note, Sarek probably would not use the word "dad" or the word "bad" in conversation; to the contrary, he would say "poor father."

Sarek is an extremist, as are all Vulcans. To prove my point, look at Sybok - You see that he was also an extremist, but just in a different way. Extremism leads to pain, because it doesn't feel - or accept anything other than a certain absolute principle.

Humanity feels joy and pain; The human mind is 2 parts instinct and 1 part instinctive reason. The vulcan has no joy or pain, because he bypasses the emotional qualities for pure intellectualism. In the process, anyone - or anything - that feels joy or pain or is not of an intelligent nature - is not understood.

Perhaps I could wrap this thought up well by saying "Is there no beauty in logic?" The answer is no, and yet that is exactly why logic is beautiful.

Wow...I actually thought that was a pretty cool post Josh. great post!

 

[RobertScorpio]

In a way I think he was a bad father because he didn't accept his son the way he is and always seemed to wish he was something different.

But that doesn't take away from him being an interesting character.

Nope, i agree..I have always found that when a character is written with flaws, not just your usual variety mind you, then that character can only grow from it...Good post!

Rob

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I think Sarek eventually came to respect humanity. I didn't view him as an extremist, just a typical Vulcan. And certainly not a bad father; I think he did the best he could.

 

[Outpost4]

He was a great father. He grew and changed. That's more than many dads.

 

[RobertScorpio]

He was a great father. He grew and changed. That's more than many dads.

Yeah, but he took about 100 years to do it..

Rob

 

[Red Ranger]

I voted "a little of both," and looks like that choice is winning the poll. Sure, not accepting Spock's career path makes him a bit of a bad dad, but fighting to save his son's katra in TSFS, then later accepting him in TVH and saying his associates were "people of good character," demonstrate he was also a good father. -- RR

 

[Mr. Fergy]

Sarek wasn't a bad dad, but he was far for perfect.

 

[T'Bonz]

Sarek wasn't a bad dad, but he was far for perfect.

That could accurately describe most parents. Parenting doesn't have an instruction book. It's sometimes a tricky business.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

^Exactly.

 

[gastrof]

From all that we know of Sarek was he, in the end, a bad dad? He seemed to be,at least, a closet racist with his views of humanity and the way he seems to look down his nose at us. He tries to turn spock away from star fleet for scientific reasons, so he says, but then he seems to say, in TUC, that his friends are of good character, implying that he once thought Kirk and company weren't of sound character...

Then we have Sybok (who I do consider canon) and that guy is totally on the wrong track for a vulcan, in fact, a pure vulcan (which is why he IS such an interesting character Mr. Roddenberry (RIP))...

So..in the end..was Sarek a good/bad, or like all fathers, a little of both..

Rob
Scopio

Umm...

Sarek was an anti-human racist?

Is that why his wife didn't have pointed ears?

 

[RobertScorpio]

From all that we know of Sarek was he, in the end, a bad dad? He seemed to be,at least, a closet racist with his views of humanity and the way he seems to look down his nose at us. He tries to turn spock away from star fleet for scientific reasons, so he says, but then he seems to say, in TUC, that his friends are of good character, implying that he once thought Kirk and company weren't of sound character...

Then we have Sybok (who I do consider canon) and that guy is totally on the wrong track for a vulcan, in fact, a pure vulcan (which is why he IS such an interesting character Mr. Roddenberry (RIP))...

So..in the end..was Sarek a good/bad, or like all fathers, a little of both..

Rob
Scopio

Umm...

Sarek was an anti-human racist?

Is that why his wife didn't have pointed ears?

He was a sadist too I guess

 

[gastrof]

He was a sadist too I guess

You'll have to explain that one. A little too obscure for me.

 

[TrekNut87]

Sarek wasn't a 'bad' dad by any means, but at the same time, he probably wouldn't be voted Father of the Year. Like just about every parent, Sarek had many very good qualities about him, but he also had his fair share of flaws.

 

[Michael]

He was a sadist too I guess

You'll have to explain that one. A little too obscure for me.

I think he means masochist, right?

 

[maryh]

I rate Sarek a good father - not perfect. As I look at all the deadbeat Dads, fathers who are little involved in their kids lives and fathers who let the mothers do all the raising of the kids one realizes that Sarek took his responsibility and duty as a father very seriously. His duty as a father would logically be to impart good values and character to his kids, develop their minds and talents, and protect his offspring. Only missing element is to provide emotional security to his kids - but this is a human, not Vulcan goal which Vulcans are not able to grasp.

Though not canon it is assumed Sarek was involved in his son's education, guidance (he had to have learned Vulcanness from someone), philosophical and moral development. He may have been overbearing but his intentions were good.

Vulcans truly do believe that their logical way is the best way so in trying to impart this to his son he is merely doing what he thinks is best for Spock and everybody. When his son choses Star Fleet his reaction is no different than any other parent who believe their child has chosen a life that will not be beneficial for Spock or anyone. Parents who care about their children have the right and responsibility to their children to guide them throughout their lives. Sarek is no different than some pacifist Berkeley professor type who objects because his son joins the army or a West Point professor whose son became a draft dodger. Where Sarek erred is in the breaking off of communication. A common mistake many parents make when they disagree with their children. Nonetheless they want what they believe is best for their children.

We see in TOS JTB that Sarek is actually open to change. He has to be for underneath it all he must be somewhat Liberal to have married a human. 18 years of silence has produced nothing so he changes. He may not agree with Spock's choice still, but he accepts, communicates and tries to understand.

When we next see him is TSFS we see a grieving father doing all he can for Spock's memory. But is Sarek wrong for having opposed Star Fleet if it did result in Spock's death? Does Sarek think he has failed as a father because he could not protect his son or impart a more pacifistic lifestyle to him?

TVH is a further development of Sarek. Here Sarek may realize that Spock's Star Flett enlistment may have been better than the Science Academy afterall. He and everyone on Earth may have been killed had his son not enlisted. At the Science Academy he would do nothing except theorize and research with his abilities whereas in Star Fleet his abilites got to be applied to, actually do some good. He admits this and again grows and changes.

TUC shows a further acceptance and mutual respect growing between the father and son.

If we can judge him as a father we should perhaps look at the results of what he in part help develop - Spock. Not bad IMO.

 

[RobertScorpio]

If we can judge him as a father we should perhaps look at the results of what he in part help develop - Spock. Not bad IMO.

Totally agree with you!!! I think all fathers make mistakes, heck even Mr. Bradford did from time to time!!!

Rob

 

[Saxman1]

TUC shows a further acceptance and mutual respect growing between the father and son.

Unfortunately, "Reunification" (TNG) seems to have undone all that. Spock said that "In the end the arguments were all we had."