Spoilers Santiago Cabrera as Captain Cristóbal "Chris" Rios

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Mondragon, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Seven of Nine: (scanning Rios) Heartbeat is all wrong. His body temperature is--Picard, this man is a Klingon.
     
  2. Llywela

    Llywela Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Because he is meeting a legendary Starfleet hero that he desperately does not want to be impressed by, having spent the last however many years trying to distance himself from everything Starfleet and Picard represent, since he feels betrayed by the organisation he once believed in so strongly (whose stated ideals he clearly does still believe in, despite himself). Not to mention that, as we later learn, he has daddy issues and a history of projecting those issues onto stalwart Starfleet father figures in the Picard mould, which he very much does not want to happen again here. So what we see of Rios in that scene is partly genuine cynicism and apathy, but mostly overcompensation, an attempt to demonstrate to this legendary Starfleet hero just how much Rios doesn't care that he is a legendary Starfleet hero. He's trying to accept the job (the scene with Enoch makes clear that the chance to work with Picard is something he is excited about, deep down) while establishing clear boundaries, as a form of self-protection.

    And then, of course, the rest of the season goes on to prove clearly just how much of a front that was, because as Picard immediately realised, Rios is in fact Starfleet through and through.
     
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  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    What's an "inner Logan"?
     
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  4. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    Rios: Hey bub! Snikt! I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do best isn't very nice!

    Patrick Stewart breaks out of character--Hugh? Is that you? What are you doing here?! I thought this was Star Trek, not another X-Men movie!

    Rios stabbed himself in the shoulder just for all of this? And I thought the Klingons had issues with their painsticks.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  5. Llywela

    Llywela Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I have no doubt the injury was an accident. We know the ship was undergoing repairs at the time of his meeting with Picard. I was talking about his attitude, which so many have critiqued in that scene, since apparently they are more interested in drawing superficial comparisons with other characters from other franchises than in understanding this character in this context.
     
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  6. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wait, but why do you take this so seriously? It’s just Star Trek.

    Anyway, the point is that more than a few people working on the show must have watched Hugh Jackman as Logan and could’ve easily said, “You know… don’t you think this lighting up a cigar without fussing over a shrapnel wound feels a bit like budget Logan, especially since we’re introducing the character and need to start with a unique impression? Suppose he’s just reading his book as in this later scene?”
     
  7. Mondragon

    Mondragon Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    True.
    Also those who insist Logan must be the main source for this character type, are just revealing their own tiny frame of reference.
     
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  8. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Cartoon Premium Member

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    No
     
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  9. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not really, no. Feels like a stereotypical old war veteran tough guy routine. See Liam Neeson's character in "Kingdom of Heaven" talking about fighting for three days with an arrow through his testicle.
     
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  10. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    (What is it about this topic? Everyone is so serious all the time.)

    Nobody claims Logan is the main source (I mean, if he were, I’d imagine it would’ve been avoided; Chabon doesn’t exactly seem to be into such references), just that someone should’ve pointed out the obvious comparison and suggested how to remove it precisely because it’s so obvious. “Y’know, how about we don’t do this?”

    That’s just talking, but this is seeing, and also we learn by the end of the episode that Rios has never been anything like that; the first impression evaporates into a puff of smoke and then we forget all about it.

    I think I’d have gone with something like a parody of Picard in early TNG. You know, he’s reading an old paper book. And then he’s very formal as the business transaction is verified, treating Picard as a proper client, showing disinterest in the mission aside from the mechanics of getting from here to there. But Starfleet shows through all that, just in the way he’s doing it, without Picard actually having to tell the viewer he’s seeing all the signs (which the viewer, on the other hand, isn’t: how would we know if everything is stowed away per regulation? We don’t know what’s regulation, only that putting on a sweater over a poorly dressed wound isn’t.)
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So Rios is putting on airs to give an impression? Yup, more stereotype.
     
  12. Boris Skrbic

    Boris Skrbic Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    He’d be putting him on is what I’m saying.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ok. Not sure what he gains by it but that's the nature of the business I suppose.
     
  14. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    I agree the whole scene with Rios comes off as forced. And if the whole scene was designed by Rios to show Picard that Rios isn't impressed with him, it was overdone to the point of having the opposite effect. I mean showing off a shirtless physique with a blade stuck out of it and trying to be macho about it? If Picard were a woman, she'd think Rios was trying to get a date.

    Rios should have just been playing "Angry Klingons" on his PADD when Picard came on board, told Picard that everything seemed very straightforward, the replicator already has Earl Gray tea hot programmed, and "I don't see what else you need. Unless you have any pressing questions, I'll get back to my PADD game."
     
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm...that makes me wonder what video games look like in Star Trek...

    Where's that show?
     
  16. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Mih ssim, mih ssim, nam, daed si Xim. Moderator

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    If Rios starts addressing Picard as "Chuck," then we'll have a problem.

    Like reality, until the holodeck malfunctions.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So much for the animated adventures of Captain John Crichton.
     
  18. Mondragon

    Mondragon Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Point is the character type loner Captain navigator/hauler, hard traveled, hard drinking, hard living, look, attitude, (from siren-lured Greek navigators of myth to Melville, Hemingway , to the pulps and westerns, Bogey, Eastwood), (cigar chomping see Che, or if you prefer comics any hardboiled cigar chomping Kirby to Sterenko character), etc. all well predate and exceed the derivative Logan.
    That if someone is myopically stuck on it's all just Logan, that might speak their own tiny frame of reference and vision.

    It' wasn't so much "putting him on" or "putting on airs", more like self denial, Rios' last Captain was ordered by Star Fleet to murder two passengers or risk his whole ship and crew being destroyed, then when confronted by Rios, he blew his own brains out in front him.
    Rios was then compelled to follow orders, cover it up, beam the bodies into space, delete the logs, and pretend like nothing happened, his whole career erased and life extinguished. . Then callously discharged for PTSD.
    So when we meet him, he's adrift, self destructive, looking to feel and take anything to cover up his pain. That's not an act, and is genuine to where the character is at that point, last thing he wanted was to hear from, take orders, or attach himself to another great speechifying Captain, and be reminded of everything he lost.
    Yet we find out the truth, of course what he wants is his life back, It's called a character arc.
    Similar to Rafi, also self destructive, looking to blame (though she may have a right to), Picard doesn't indulge that side of her, instead he gives her something to do, work her active, intuitive mind, that she is good at, she breaks the conspiracy, which all pans out true. This work allows her to survive.
    Same with Rios, Picard instantly detects what was once a good Starfleet officer, trying to bury what he really is, what Starfleet has denied him, - Picard's mission, having a C.O. a real purpose, managing a REAL crew and people again, helps Rios regain focus and himself.
    Hence giving him a chance to change from where we first we meet him, closer to the officer and purpose he once was..
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2021 at 2:54 AM
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  19. Yistaan

    Yistaan Commodore Commodore

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    This is the part where Famke Janssen comes in to reprise her TNG character and Geordi has a new visor that can shoot phaser beams.
     
  20. Llywela

    Llywela Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Why do I take it seriously? Because I'm interested in characters and their stories. In the same way that other forum members here are seriously interested in the design intricacies of spaceships and Starfleet uniforms. Viewers are allowed to focus their interest in different areas of a show. For some, that's the technical details. For others, it's character nuance and storytelling. I'm here for the characters and their stories - I'd rather invest my energy in understanding them than worry about whether all the windows were in the right place in that three-second shot of the Enterprise we saw in Picard's dream sequence, or get stressed over the quality of CGI used to de-age Data, but I don't go around asking other fans why they care about those details. It is okay that some fans care about the technical details, and it is okay that other fans care about character stories. Rios has a story that makes sense to me, as unfolded over the course of the season, so I'm going to defend that when I see people criticising the character based solely on what comes across as a misunderstanding of his first scene.

    That said, I don't actually take it hugely seriously, because it is just a TV show. But we're all here to talk about that TV show, right? As an escape from real life, or whatever. You might as well ask why anyone is on this forum talking about the show instead of worrying about more important stuff!
     
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