San Francisco: Never the same twice
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
- Start date
I was actually quite fond of the "We'll Always Have Paris" version of Paris
Looked like a wonderful place to live.
I suppose it's not really until we get to the JJ movies and the nuTV shows where every city we see starts to look like Star Wars.I was actually quite fond of the "We'll Always Have Paris" version of Paris
No, what I am trying to state is that if Earth was to become the "paradise" that STAR TREK is trying to depict, there would be a move to shrink humanity's footprint as much as possible, with the emphasis on developing the urban center. That's why I suggested that there would be urban farms, underground dwellings and even virtual realities in my proposed scenario. Then again, it would be simpler to just establish a Terran colony, and develop the rest of the Sol Star System, short of having "Synths" run amuck and blow up a colony's atmosphere.
I once read an amazing comment either here or on tumblr where someone said Discovery is the real Paris, and it looked how it did in TNG because they had the holodeck graphics settings on minimum
Maybe instead of a transport tube it's a temporary arboretum and central concourse of the Paris Intergalactic World's Fair and covers or connects to those buildings to provide an unobstructed housed convention ground, and the fair is what Picard and Michelle Phillips were attending.Let's not forget the view from the Café des Artistes in TNG's "We'll Always Have Paris". Technically it's a holodeck recreation of Paris but we might assume it's supposed to be accurate, even though that tube structure is definitely not there whenever we see the Eiffel Tower from the Federation President's office in either the 2290s or 2370s.
Major changes from the Paris of today are the Pont d'Iéna (the bridge) being a much wider structure with a different pattern of arches and apparently now made of brick, and the Champ de Mars gardens, Place du Trocadéro, and Parvis des Libertés et des Droits de l'Homme apparently no longer exist since that transport tube goes right through the middle of all of them.
Perhaps Picard requested a particular period setting – maybe the early 24th century of his youth – which would explain the visual differences.
From our outside perspective as a 21st century viewer, and from an in-universe 24th century perspective as a Starfleet crewmember, I just can't see a world overrun by ruins, even being gradually returned to it's natural state, as something they would describe as a "paradise."
It's inconsistent with the very premise of this thread. San Fransisco and other cities aren't being abandonened to rot, they're growing and adapting like an organism themselves, while still maintsining a healthy balance with nature. That's what I see Starfleet calling a paradise.
Before finding out what was going on, Starfleet didn't consider the Bendi ruins on the surface to be some kind of crumbling paradise being returned to its natural state. They were fascinated by the new, pristine, and state of the art Farpoint Station, which seemingly, though not, lived in balance with the natural landscape around it.
The fetid idustrialized, over-developed (possible ecumenopolis?) of Farius Prime (later revisited as the Moclan Homeworld in The Orville) was the antithesis of a paradise in their eyes as well. Not a tree or blade of grass to be seen.
24th century folk with the exceptions of New Essentialist radicals, like their paradises to find a balance between the technological and the natural, like Earth and Risa.
I'm not sure you are getting what I was saying. I'm not talking about San Francisco being abandoned. I was jesting regarding Detroit. But chances are there are certain places, usually not that big, that might be populated today, but had long since abandoned by the time Kirk and Picard and their Enterprises zipped through the stars. Most likely smaller towns, especially with industries that might have tapped out or become obsolete. Many of the ghost towns in the US were tied to an industry (often mining) that dried out after a while. I'd look at settlements that's heavily revolved around industries/way of life that would be obsolete by the 23rd. Yes, many would adapt but not all.
I would suggest that rather than allow them to decay in place, Starflleet and/or the necessary Earth agency in charge would dig up the ruins and all the related underground logistical pipelines, mines, conduits, subways, basements, what have you, use them as replicator matter, smooth and shape tha land to conform to preexisting maps of terrain & rivers, and then generously seed the area with cloned or closely patterned presettlment seed stock and adjust the weather modification net accordingly.
I doubt they'd just leave a city or town to rot in place (unless it had been declared a historical monument, in which case they'd fix all those problems underground while preserving the appearance of the exterior) because of the potential for environtal impact from it's underground infrastructure or above gound structures corroding over time.
In a world with replicators and transporters, location is essentially irrelevant.
Good point, though some areas may be too "damaged" due to factors such as significant bedrock loss for actual restoration.
Location is always relevant. Also, replicators seemed to be relatively new during the TNG era. I don't see the masses beaming back and forth thousands of miles apart between work and home. Janeway's stories about home always was about Indiana (despite being a daughter of a Starfleet officer). Sisko always talked of New Orleans, and Picard of France. Also, Bashir's parents had to change cities after they had Juilian undergo that genetic procedure,, suggesting location is still an thing in the 24th.
Warp drive, replicators, post scarcity. Oh, and they were starting a project to make a new continent. Have any later Treks ever addressed what happened with that project? I've always thought that was just about the most futuristic thing I ever heard in a Star Trek. OTOH, given what we've been saying here about Earth population and land use, what would it be FOR?
It seems to me that the engineering project that converted Gibraltar into a hydroelectric source and turned the Mediterranean sea into a pond / river from Roddenberry's Motion Picture novel would not be seen as a progressive ideal anymore. What do people more knowledgeable than myself (large pool, I know) think about this?
Is there an official stance on the economics of beaming? Or travel in general? Again, in TMP Kirk doesn't beam back from Gibraltar to Starfleet, he takes the tram that we see in the film. (TMP took a rather dim view of beaming being dramatically satisfying. Hence Spock does not beam aboard from his shuttle.) One of the novels (Trek III I think) suggested areas that would be transporter free as an aesthetic choice. Vonda was also writing when it was assumed that scarcity was very much a part of Star Trek in specific and humanity at large.
When people talk about post-scarcity in Star Trek I point out that Chateau Picard is a rather unique thing and certainly has a value attached to it. Same with Sisko's restaurant. (And Lorca's family made fortune cookies! These people all make food!)
I also point out Kirk's apartment although I'm increasingly of the opinion that it may well be a simulation!
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We don’t really know how unique the Chateau or Sisko’s are.
At the very least the Chateau is hundreds of years old and you can't make new old stuff. It also takes up a fair amount of space.
Some sort of 24th century Crystal Palace/Great Exhibition? I actually love that idea. And honestly it makes more sense than someone somehow being allowed to run a futuristic railway between the legs of a centuries-old World Heritage Site.
Edited for spelling.
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Post scarcity is always a difficult concept to nail down and grasp for us at times. There will always be a measure of scarcity simply because some things are naturally limited. There are only so many coastlines, so many historical sites and so many experiences that can't fully be replicated. I imagine that food would be a place where in the post scarcity world of Trek people would find true value in it because it would be unique. People could do what they truly enjoy and "follow their bliss" (to borrow a phrase) rather than worry about work. Experiences and socializing would actually become apart of the larger economy because some things could be replicated, but for those who want the authentic experiences those would be a bit more limited, just due to time, location, and history.
It’d be funny if it was the same tree Picard carved initials on…
Do you think that there might be underground cities, underwater cities and even sky cities as well? Picard's friend Rene was working on "The Atlantis Project", and Kirk and crew came across the sky city of Stratos (TOS, "The Cloud Minders"). In fact, I've read projects being considered for at least having "island cities" being proposed. Can you imagine an underwater city like in BIOSHOCK, or a floating city like in BIOSHOCK: INFINITE? Yes, a bit of STAR WARS, but STAR TREK did it first (LOL). BTW, I'm surprised that the Moon was never terraformed, even by the 32nd century...
