Saavik or Valeris in TUC?
- Thread starter c0rnedfr0g
- Start date
Unfortuneately you're right...I was never impressed with Nick Meyers' take on Star Trek...He missed the boat big time IMHO.I think that's a bit unfair. Yes, they played the role very different, because the role was supposed to be very different. Alley played a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan who did not have full control of her emotions. Curtis played a full, stoic Vulcan. Both did their respective interpretations well, IMHO.
I don't think he's given quite THAT much praise. But Meyer did introduce alot of good and fresh elements into Trek. I think the problem is that he was left unchecked in TUC.And yet people around here worship this guy like he walks on water. I just don't get it.
With TWOK, there was no doubt, from the get go, that Harve Bennet was the guy in charge. And Harve Bennet was someone who had watched all the episodes of TOS, respected what had come before, and wanted to stay true to Star Trek. He watched over Meyer and made sure that he didn't go too far in his reworking of Trek to his personal preferences.
With TVH, Meyer was just a writer and everything he put to paper got run through both Bennet and Leonard Nimoy before making it on the screen.
But, by the time of TUC, Bennet was gone and Meyer had alot more clout. He essentially got to make the movie the way he wanted, with no one to keep him in check. And so things went a bit too far.
All in all, however, I still say that Meyer was an asset to Trek and, compared to some of the dreck we've gotten since, is a freakin' Cecil B. DeMille.
Please list Alley's supposedly "bimbo" qualities in ST II. I can think of none.
Her tears at Spock's funeral? Intentionally unnerving to see a Vulcan (ie. with Romulan heritage) cry.
To each his own, I guess. I would have preferred seeing more of this sort of thing in the series. Especially in regards to Kirk's character development.
Well, it wasn't the character aspect that bothered me. More the literal 'Starfleet=Navy' stuff that served to undermine the scifi aspect in some regard.
Meyers bungling aside, Kristie Alley would have been a better choice because of the dramatic value of her betrayal of Spock and his values.
I can't vote, because I still side with a totally different route...
Both. You have saavik return as science officer and XO of the enterprise (at this point spock is removed from the official ships chain of command). Valeris is also there as the recently graduated from command school "vulcan". She was from the same backstory as saavik but is younger and the two always competed with each other. (this is exampled with saavik's dirty look when spock points out that valeris was the first to graduate top of her class)
So as the story goes, spock takes command of the ship following kirk and mccoys arrest, and puts his two proteges in charge of the investigation... This leads to a whole sub plot of the two not getting along and both looking at each other as the traitor.
In the end it is found that saavik is the traitor, not valeris (who the story was setting up as the traitor through the second half of the film) and it all stemmed back to her love for kirks son and his death at the hand of the klingons.
Then it's revieled, during the mind meld scene, that her child (who she was pregnant with durring the events of IV) is actually david marcus's... and thus Kirk's grandchild...
I think it would made for a much more rich story line.
Both. You have saavik return as science officer and XO of the enterprise (at this point spock is removed from the official ships chain of command). Valeris is also there as the recently graduated from command school "vulcan". She was from the same backstory as saavik but is younger and the two always competed with each other. (this is exampled with saavik's dirty look when spock points out that valeris was the first to graduate top of her class)
So as the story goes, spock takes command of the ship following kirk and mccoys arrest, and puts his two proteges in charge of the investigation... This leads to a whole sub plot of the two not getting along and both looking at each other as the traitor.
In the end it is found that saavik is the traitor, not valeris (who the story was setting up as the traitor through the second half of the film) and it all stemmed back to her love for kirks son and his death at the hand of the klingons.
Then it's revieled, during the mind meld scene, that her child (who she was pregnant with durring the events of IV) is actually david marcus's... and thus Kirk's grandchild...
I think it would made for a much more rich story line.
^^ cat fight! Can there be a mud wrestling scene?
You mean 'Saavik' when you say Kirstie Alley, right? I just find the automatic shoot-down of Robin Curtis by Meyer annoying.
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That is really really better for me.
Yeah, that'd have been pretty good, even if bickering Vulcans seems a little weird (presumably it would be heavily veiled).
I begrudgingly admit that Saavik having borne Marcus' child would work exceedingly well dramatically.
So, Nero's half-human now, too?
I begrudgingly admit that Saavik having borne Marcus' child would work exceedingly well dramatically.
So, Nero's half-human now, too?
Lots of eyebrow-arching.
Ditto. It's the one scenario for her pregnancy that doesn't feel creepy. I always hated the idea of Spock knocking her up - but if she's already pregnant when that happened she couldn't have been knocked up by Spock. Plus, she'd have to stay on Vulcan for genetic treatments to ensure the child lived, making her staying behind make more sense.
Heh.So, Nero's half-human now, too?
Exactly. Robin Curtiss is a good actress, I just prefer Kristie Alley in the role as Savaak is all. (I'm too much of a "loyal dog" I guess.)
You mean 'Saavik' when you say Kirstie Alley, right? I just find the automatic shoot-down of Robin Curtis by Meyer annoying.
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That is really really better for me.
^Well, I'd have preferred she been played by Alley all along just for consistency sake. (I hate recasting.) But even though Alley originated the role, Curtis played her in two movies afterward, even if the second was a cameo, so I'd have hated even more for them to switch back to Alley after that.
I seem to recall, Ms Alley. Was heavily involved with Cheers when she was asked to reprise her role as Savaak. That and she want a boat load of money to do it. Hence the part went to Ms. Curtiss instead.
It's the romulan half of their genetics which makes them more volatile...
Indeed. It fits almost perfectly. It would also explain the "turn" in her character even more because her mentor, who she looked up to like a father, was the one who spearheaded the peace movement with the people who killed her love...
Why would Romulan genetics make any difference? There's been too little time for random mutation and natural selection to have made the Romulans particularly distinct from Vulcans, especially given the complex genetic basis for character traits.
And if we do assume the Vulcans who remained are somehow genetically predisposed toward pacifism and logic, it really kind of takes the shine off their philosophy and makes them look like jerks for looking down on everyone else who can't help it they weren't born with an off-switch for their natural antagonism.
And if we do assume the Vulcans who remained are somehow genetically predisposed toward pacifism and logic, it really kind of takes the shine off their philosophy and makes them look like jerks for looking down on everyone else who can't help it they weren't born with an off-switch for their natural antagonism.
Exactly! The only differences between vulcans and romulans are purely cultural. I wish more people would grasp this concept.
