Saavik or Valeris in TUC?

[c0rnedfr0g]

TUC followed up on the story elements from TWOK, TSFS, and TVH, but did not have Saavik. From MA:

Saavik was to have reprised her role in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, but was replaced with Valeris, reportedly because Gene Roddenberry was concerned that fans had become so fond of Saavik that they would react negatively to her turning out to be a traitor. Also, no one wanted to have to cast a third actress to play the same role.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Valeris

So, what is your opinion? Would you have liked to see Saavik return and play the traitor? Or were you happy with the (somewhat obviously guilty because she was new) character of Valeris being the traitor?

Also, if you chose Saavik, who would you want to play the role?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Saavik as traitor would have been an unpredictable plot twist. As much as I liked Kirstie Alley in ST II, Robin Curtis had already reinterpreted the role in two later films, so she would have suited me fine - but it's a shame Meyer wasn't even interested in meeting her.

Kim Cattrall was interesting, but I just knew Valeris was a traitor. "Cinefantastique" did do a spoiler in a caption, but I'd have guessed anyway.

 

[MyCylon]

I was very happy with Cattrall and the Valeris character. I don't think I guessed she was a traitor first because of the seemingly unlimited faith Spock put in here.

Plus, to me, the twist that she was a traitor was not where the real meat was but rather in Spock's realization of how she'd pulled the wool over his eyes.

Oh, and it's only now that I realize that the actress also played in Sex and the City .

 

[c0rnedfr0g]

For me, it was obvious she was the traitor when Spock says "or somebody forged an entry in the computer databanks" and BAM! Valeris slides down the pole next to Spock. Talk about elementary school foreshadowing

Hmmmm

 

[Therin of Andor]

it's only now that I realize that the actress also played in Sex and the City .

And Miss Honeywell, aka as "Lassie", in "Porky's". Aroooooooooooooooo!!!!

 

[CorporalClegg]

Curtis's Saavik definitely. Valeris was just too obvious and Cattrall was just uninteresting.

Saavik would have added shock and would have been a real twist epically because she was a "fan favorite."

I know the fan favorite thing is one of the reasons they didn't do it, but sometimes you have to favor good storytelling over keeping everyone happy.

And, by this time Alley was already kind of tired and on the way out. Plus I never liked her take.

Curtis actually played a Vulcan. Alley played a bimbo with pointed ears.

but it's a shame Meyer wasn't even interested in meeting her.

Talk about elementary school foreshadowing

And yet people around here worship this guy like he walks on water. I just don't get it.

 

[Oso Blanco]

Kim Cattrall is the worst actress Star Trek has ever seen.

 

[Praetor]

As fond as I am of Saavik, I'd have been fine with her being the traitor, and I think Robin Curtis reinvented the role well after Kirstie did not return, and would have done a good job in TUC. As Therin suggests, Valeris was rather obvious as the traitor. Having the character be Saavik, someone with whom the fandom is more familiar, might have caused greater dramatic ambiguity.

 

[CorporalClegg]

Kim Cattrall is the worst actress Star Trek has ever seen.

Nah.

I think Farrell and Sirtis will forever be mud wresting for that award.

 

[Myasishchev]

As fond as I am of Saavik, I'd have been fine with her being the traitor, and I think Robin Curtis reinvented the role well after Kirstie did not return, and would have done a good job in TUC. As Therin suggests, Valeris was rather obvious as the traitor. Having the character be Saavik, someone with whom the fandom is more familiar, might have caused greater dramatic ambiguity.

I think this is true, but you'd have needed to delve much deeper into her motivations than they did for Valeris in order to explain her turning coat (against, at least, her mentor/pon farr buddy, if not Starfleet as an institution).

I would've let Robin Curtis reprise the role. Screw Kirstie Alley. I bet Robin Curtis never gained 100 pounds.

Fwiw, I liked Cattrall. And I didn't realize Samantha was also Valeris until, like, a couple of months ago. I think she looked hotter as Valeris. Granted, the decade might have had something to do with it.

 

[Praetor]

As fond as I am of Saavik, I'd have been fine with her being the traitor, and I think Robin Curtis reinvented the role well after Kirstie did not return, and would have done a good job in TUC. As Therin suggests, Valeris was rather obvious as the traitor. Having the character be Saavik, someone with whom the fandom is more familiar, might have caused greater dramatic ambiguity.

I think this is true, but you'd have needed to delve much deeper into her motivations than they did for Valeris in order to explain her turning coat (against, at least, her mentor/pon farr buddy, if not Starfleet as an institution).

I would've let Robin Curtis reprise the role. Screw Kirstie Alley. I bet Robin Curtis never gained 100 pounds.

I don't think you have to go a lot deeper...

Saavik was originally supposed to be half-Romulan. Romulans seem to almost instinctively hate Klingons. Saavik went through a lot in TSFS at the hands of Klingons (even losing her boyfriend at their hands if you accept the novelization's account.)

I've always thought she might have grown up on some crappy border planet along the Romulan/Klingon border, where she might have been witness to Klingon atrocities. It might have even served the story to retcon her as a full Romulan from a Klingon/Romulan border world later taken into the Vulcan ways after being found by perhaps Spock while aboard the Enterprise.

Fwiw, I liked Cattrall. And I didn't realize Samantha was also Valeris until, like, a couple of months ago. I think she looked hotter as Valeris. Granted, the decade might have had something to do with it.

I tend to agree, although I shall forever remember Cattrall for 'Mannequin.'

Mainly, I just think having it be Saavik would make the drama stronger, whoever played her.

 

[22 Stars]

OT, Cynthia Gow is probably the work Trek actress I can think of.

 

[Praetor]

^Valkris?

 

[Sky]

Either actress (or even a new actress) in the role of Saavik would have worked fine. I had a hard time accepting a new Vulcan protegee for Spock - someone who we were supposed to know well enough about to make us care about her turning out to be a traitor.

 

[DaleC76]

^Valkris?

Cynthia Gow was the Romulan chick from TFF.

 

[Therin of Andor]

^Valkris?

Valkris was played by Cathie Shirriff ("Murder in Space", and original host of "Ripley's Believe It Or Not")

 

[Myasishchev]

As fond as I am of Saavik, I'd have been fine with her being the traitor, and I think Robin Curtis reinvented the role well after Kirstie did not return, and would have done a good job in TUC. As Therin suggests, Valeris was rather obvious as the traitor. Having the character be Saavik, someone with whom the fandom is more familiar, might have caused greater dramatic ambiguity.

I think this is true, but you'd have needed to delve much deeper into her motivations than they did for Valeris in order to explain her turning coat (against, at least, her mentor/pon farr buddy, if not Starfleet as an institution).

I would've let Robin Curtis reprise the role. Screw Kirstie Alley. I bet Robin Curtis never gained 100 pounds.

I don't think you have to go a lot deeper...

Saavik was originally supposed to be half-Romulan. Romulans seem to almost instinctively hate Klingons. Saavik went through a lot in TSFS at the hands of Klingons (even losing her boyfriend at their hands if you accept the novelization's account.)

A fair point. I hadn't really thought about that. You Klingon bastards, you killed my man.

I've always thought she might have grown up on some crappy border planet along the Romulan/Klingon border, where she might have been witness to Klingon atrocities. It might have even served the story to retcon her as a full Romulan from a Klingon/Romulan border world later taken into the Vulcan ways after being found by perhaps Spock while aboard the Enterprise.

Man, Spock's like the guy from the Thorn Birds.

Mainly, I just think having it be Saavik would make the drama stronger, whoever played her.

Was Robin Curtis actually busy at the time? I've seen her in literally nothing else.

 

[Praetor]

^Valkris?

Cynthia Gow was the Romulan chick from TFF.

^Valkris?

Valkris was played by Cathie Shirriff ("Murder in Space", and original host of "Ripley's Believe It Or Not")

Thanks! I was thinking 'Valeris' had gotten mentally smudged into 'Valkris' hence the Cynthia Gow reference.

I think this is true, but you'd have needed to delve much deeper into her motivations than they did for Valeris in order to explain her turning coat (against, at least, her mentor/pon farr buddy, if not Starfleet as an institution).

I would've let Robin Curtis reprise the role. Screw Kirstie Alley. I bet Robin Curtis never gained 100 pounds.

I don't think you have to go a lot deeper...

Saavik was originally supposed to be half-Romulan. Romulans seem to almost instinctively hate Klingons. Saavik went through a lot in TSFS at the hands of Klingons (even losing her boyfriend at their hands if you accept the novelization's account.)

A fair point. I hadn't really thought about that. You Klingon bastards, you killed my man.

Especially when you consider that was a lot of Kirk's beef with them, too. His son that is.

I've always thought she might have grown up on some crappy border planet along the Romulan/Klingon border, where she might have been witness to Klingon atrocities. It might have even served the story to retcon her as a full Romulan from a Klingon/Romulan border world later taken into the Vulcan ways after being found by perhaps Spock while aboard the Enterprise.

Man, Spock's like the guy from the Thorn Birds.

Mainly, I just think having it be Saavik would make the drama stronger, whoever played her.

Was Robin Curtis actually busy at the time? I've seen her in literally nothing else.

I think she was available, Nick Meyer just 'wasn't interested.'

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think she was available, Nick Meyer just 'wasn't interested.'

Correct.

 

[CoveTom]

Curtis actually played a Vulcan. Alley played a bimbo with pointed ears.

I think that's a bit unfair. Yes, they played the role very different, because the role was supposed to be very different. Alley played a half-Vulcan/half-Romulan who did not have full control of her emotions. Curtis played a full, stoic Vulcan. Both did their respective interpretations well, IMHO.

And yet people around here worship this guy like he walks on water. I just don't get it.

I don't think he's given quite THAT much praise. But Meyer did introduce alot of good and fresh elements into Trek. I think the problem is that he was left unchecked in TUC.

With TWOK, there was no doubt, from the get go, that Harve Bennet was the guy in charge. And Harve Bennet was someone who had watched all the episodes of TOS, respected what had come before, and wanted to stay true to Star Trek. He watched over Meyer and made sure that he didn't go too far in his reworking of Trek to his personal preferences.

With TVH, Meyer was just a writer and everything he put to paper got run through both Bennet and Leonard Nimoy before making it on the screen.

But, by the time of TUC, Bennet was gone and Meyer had alot more clout. He essentially got to make the movie the way he wanted, with no one to keep him in check. And so things went a bit too far.

All in all, however, I still say that Meyer was an asset to Trek and, compared to some of the dreck we've gotten since, is a freakin' Cecil B. DeMille.