Saavik I vs. Saavik II?

[JonnyQuest037]

Well you don't like/trust them either and They killed your son!, and that also would have felt too small universe that both reluctant-but-reforming Kirk and the actual murderous traitor's main motivations directly stemmed from the exact same incident (that we saw, had been big part a few films ago).

This is just speculation on my part, of course, but I think if they'd gone through with the original plans to have Saavik be the traitor, David Marcus' death wouldn't have had much to do with her motivations. Any Saavik/David flirtation was pretty thoroughly edited out of TWOK, and despite what the novelization depicts, Saavik and David don't have any romance or special relationship going on in TSFS either.

Valeris' "They killed your son" line is about her trying to twist the knife to Kirk, not about her own motivations, and I feel like it would've been played the same if it had been Kirstie Alley's Saavik delivering those lines.

 

[CoveTom]

This is just speculation on my part, of course, but I think if they'd gone through with the original plans to have Saavik be the traitor, David Marcus' death wouldn't have had much to do with her motivations. Any Saavik/David flirtation was pretty thoroughly edited out of TWOK, and despite what the novelization depicts, Saavik and David don't have any romance or special relationship going on in TSFS either.

Valeris' "They killed your son" line is about her trying to twist the knife to Kirk, not about her own motivations, and I feel like it would've been played the same if it had been Kirstie Alley's Saavik delivering those lines.

Except that, at least for me personally, I would have had a hard time believing those lines coming from Kirstie Alley's Saavik. Or even Robin Curtis'. I think it would take me out of the movie. I wouldn't buy Saavik as the traitor. And I certainly could not see her being that cruel toward Kirk personally. It would feel like a cheap attempt at shock value, not a natural development of the character. IMHO, of course.

 

[FormerLurker]

Except that, at least for me personally, I would have had a hard time believing those lines coming from Kirstie Alley's Saavik. Or even Robin Curtis'. I think it would take me out of the movie. I wouldn't buy Saavik as the traitor. And I certainly could not see her being that cruel toward Kirk personally. It would feel like a cheap attempt at shock value, not a natural development of the character. IMHO, of course.

I agree with every word you said.

 

[Pauln6]

Having read the novelisations, I felt that retconning Saavik's more emotional nature hollowed out the character. It's not as if Curtis could not have carried it off. In fact, it's more that Meyer couldn't carry off directing an emotionless Vulcan when you look at Valeris.

I'm in the camp that would have loved to see Saavik be the traitor, but not exactly as Valeris was written in STVI. She could have been more peripheral to the plot, covering up deeds without realising just how murderous they were going to be. Spock could have persuaded her to help at the end rather than the awful forced mind meld. It could have worked quite well IMO but not word for word.