ARGH!!! Don't ever say that! That just tempts the Hand of Fate to give you "the finger"! That's almost as bad as "Could be worse; could be raining..."
(Please don't take any of that too seriously. Just trying to comically melodramatic.)
S13E03 "Once, Upon Time" BBC1 6.30-7.20pm 14th November
- Thread starter StCoop
- Start date
ARGH!!! Don't ever say that! That just tempts the Hand of Fate to give you "the finger"! That's almost as bad as "Could be worse; could be raining..."
(Please don't take any of that too seriously. Just trying to comically melodramatic.)
Heh, no worries!
Just a quick positive for the ep: When Vinder said "I swore an oath to the constitution, not to any person", that was a really neat and subtle shout-out, while not being telegraphed as such. Compare that to NotTrump Robertson...
Just a quick positive for the ep: When Vinder said "I swore an oath to the constitution, not to any person", that was a really neat and subtle shout-out, while not being telegraphed as such. Compare that to NotTrump Robertson...
You mean her "azure unborn child" at least until I rewound and turned on the subtitles.
I guess we didn't learn too much new but we see why I assume Dan didn't try harder with Diane and reinforces how much she means to him. With Yaz maybe setting up the angels is enough. The flashbacks also show us they aren't just passively reexperiencing their past but as their later selves.
I didn't dislike the episode as a whole, even got emotional at times, but it clicked most of the boxes of what I dislike about the Chinball Who. Now, I will gloss over the puffed-up storyline full of air that does not make any sense – OK, that's fine, whatever (at least it gives me the luxury to claim I understood every bit of the episode, and dub the rest gibberish). But:
Did we jump into the Doctor's past timeline that we had never seen, during the Ruth Doctor incarnation, and had Jodie play her, and Jo Martin with just a short cameo in the mirror? That should have been the other way round, and I don't think the “surprise” here justified harming the whole sequence. Swarm clearly indicated that the Doctor started this a long time ago in episode 1, so it was obvious this was the Doctor's past, and it was going to be the first meeting with Swarm and Azure. It was the Doctor to whom this wasn't clear, not the audience.
Now, due to that choice, and the “reality” being only seen in the mirror, it seemed more like a distant dream by the Doctor, as opposed to her real past in which she interfered a little. Contrary to that, Vinder and Yaz's felt really real, I worried Vinder may screw his history even with Yaz in it, and Yaz being a part of her life she hadn't lived yet was eerie even before the weeping angel appeared. The Doctor's jump appeared too dreamlike – this isn't Quantum Leap, and the mirror thing bugged me in Quantum Leap enough to quit the show.
It's not just that Jo Martin deserved more screen time (which I guess may not have been possible to budget or COVID concerns). But that's another major piece of the TImeless Child overall storyline that didn't live up to its potential by the decision to depict it like this. Much like the Doctor incarnation(s) who had their memory zapped over and over, where it just hung there until the “Oh!” moment, and the failure to carry the emotional weight of what actually happened.
Now, due to that choice, and the “reality” being only seen in the mirror, it seemed more like a distant dream by the Doctor, as opposed to her real past in which she interfered a little. Contrary to that, Vinder and Yaz's felt really real, I worried Vinder may screw his history even with Yaz in it, and Yaz being a part of her life she hadn't lived yet was eerie even before the weeping angel appeared. The Doctor's jump appeared too dreamlike – this isn't Quantum Leap, and the mirror thing bugged me in Quantum Leap enough to quit the show.
It's not just that Jo Martin deserved more screen time (which I guess may not have been possible to budget or COVID concerns). But that's another major piece of the TImeless Child overall storyline that didn't live up to its potential by the decision to depict it like this. Much like the Doctor incarnation(s) who had their memory zapped over and over, where it just hung there until the “Oh!” moment, and the failure to carry the emotional weight of what actually happened.
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I really enjoyed that. Being stuck in a temporal storm, I had no idea what number to press to vote. 
I loved the woman who appeared in the cold open, so I empathized with her story pretty quickly. Then her being the partner of the other man in the story was a lovely conclusion.
Jo Warner was a welcome appearance tying into this Doctor's past, and the arc from the last series.
Weeping Angel on the Dalek?
Another good cliffhanger.
I loved the woman who appeared in the cold open, so I empathized with her story pretty quickly. Then her being the partner of the other man in the story was a lovely conclusion.
Jo Warner was a welcome appearance tying into this Doctor's past, and the arc from the last series.
Weeping Angel on the Dalek?
Another good cliffhanger.
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People are saying we didn't learn much of importance, but I think we did!
We learned how the Time Lords became the Lords of Time. They beat it into submission by defeating Swarm/Azure and controlling what Swarm said was uncontrollable.
We learned the Doctor has something to do with the Flux.
It also sets up the dynamic that Jodie's Doctor will be finishing the unfinished business between Jo's Doctor and the Division at some point. We know Jo couldn't finish it because ultimately she was captured and mindwiped.
One thing I wondered after pondering the story. So, the Doctor inserted herself into Dan's and Yaz's timestreams. Yet, it was Yaz who somehow inserted herself into Vindar's. How did that happen? Is it of any significance?
We learned how the Time Lords became the Lords of Time. They beat it into submission by defeating Swarm/Azure and controlling what Swarm said was uncontrollable.
We learned the Doctor has something to do with the Flux.
It also sets up the dynamic that Jodie's Doctor will be finishing the unfinished business between Jo's Doctor and the Division at some point. We know Jo couldn't finish it because ultimately she was captured and mindwiped.
One thing I wondered after pondering the story. So, the Doctor inserted herself into Dan's and Yaz's timestreams. Yet, it was Yaz who somehow inserted herself into Vindar's. How did that happen? Is it of any significance?
Only that, as of the moment Vinder was put into the timestorm by Swarm, Yaz was the only member of Team TARDIS he had actually met.
Or he might fancy her. Take your pick.
So, is Bel's mobile with the kissy/heart smileys meant to just be emotional support or is it actually meant to be displaying some form of Mum/Baby connection while her unborn is still cooking?
If so, that's going to set some cats loose in the pigeon coop, given she's not even showing yet.
If so, that's going to set some cats loose in the pigeon coop, given she's not even showing yet.
I've been wondering about the Moirae-Fates-Atropos connections myself. It could mean something or it could just be a callback to when Doctor Who did names like that all the time.
I like Bel. I figured out her tamagochi thing was a monitor for an unborn baby and that she's looking for Vinder during the scene with the Cyberman. She has a Lupari ship, which makes me think she's been to or is from Earth. I'd figured from the previous ep that Vinder was sent to that outpost as some kind of punishment and now we know for sure. But is there a reason we saw the whole Grand Serpent thing? We shall see.
We see how Ruth!Doctor defeated Swarm and Azure before. Swarm says it was a war between Space and Time and the planet itself is called Time. I'm guessing this has something to do with the origin of the Time Lords. Were Swarm and Azure pre-Time Lords or outside enemies? Awsok called them The Ravagers or Ravages. Swarm is played by a different actor here and is Old Swarm on IMDB, so I think killing the Division guards during his escape made him physically younger.
We also see that Karvanista, who we know is the last Division member alive, was there. Is he the only one left because it was so long ago or has someone been killing them? Ruth!Doctor was on Earth with her memory blocked - did the Division betray her?
Oh, whoever brought up the Time Lord CIA, thanks! I'd forgotten all about them. Celestial Intervention Agency, I think?
Then there's Awsok. The Flux was sent intentionally and somehow it's The Doctor's fault. Jodie did a great job showing how much this upset her. I got a bit of a White Guardian vibe too - Someone outside of Time and Space.
The Angels were *terrifying* here!
We still have no idea why Dan is important (if he even is) and what's up with the tunnels.
Next ep is called "Village of the Angels".
My mind immediately went to the Woman that appeared in "The End of Time" two-parter, when the Woman popped up at the end of the episode. I know it's been 10+ years, but I started to wonder, if we were finally going to get an ID on the character.
If so, it'll probably very different from what Davies had intended. But I don't think there's a connection there.
The official YouTube channel posted this wonderful behind-the-scenes video focused on Jo Martin's return. I loved the revelation that instead of using lots of fancy special effects to replace Jodie with Jo in the reflection as initially envisioned, they instead just had the two actresses standing next to each other and the camera was angled just in the right way so we would see Jo in the reflection instead.
Unsurprisingly, they heavily teased Jo's future appearances. Hopefully sooner than later!
Unsurprisingly, they heavily teased Jo's future appearances. Hopefully sooner than later!
I've been assuming the Master will show up and have been trying to guess how s/he fits in. My leading theory at the moment is that the Master was one of the people with the Fugitive Doctor at the Temple of Atropos. We know that Kavanista was there as Dan. But who were in the other's places? Wondering if the Master is one of them.
My other Master theory is that the Timeless Child is actually the Master. That all of the experimentation, etc. made the Master go bad even through the memory wipe. Although, there's also the sound of the drums theory for that, but being a tormented, experimented on TC is a better reason.
I think the Weeping Angels might become something of a reluctant ally, too. They feed on time, so they probably need linear time, right?
Everything in this story was great... except the story.
I found it a confusing mess and they did that thing I really hate:
"What's going to happen?/What's going on?/What will we do?"
"I'll tell you later."
Speculation: the Chibbers Masterplan: reboot the entire universe. No Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, they're here for the last time folks!
I found it a confusing mess and they did that thing I really hate:
"What's going to happen?/What's going on?/What will we do?"
"I'll tell you later."
Speculation: the Chibbers Masterplan: reboot the entire universe. No Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, they're here for the last time folks!
As well as the "mites", those swirling collections of blue "sparkles" making characters vanish. Oof, that looked like 80s BBC budget level opticals. Normally, I'm very forgiving (otherwise I would not have given "classic era" serials a chance when PBS affiliates aired them in the 80s), but now? Er...ouch.
Not for the last time - just the last time as we knew them.
We're going to wind up with a newly regenerated Doctor in a brand new universe that has never heard of him/her - continuity slate wiped completely clean, his/her mind permanently erased of everything we've seen over the last 58 years. Just him/her, a blue police box he/she doesn't have the first clue how to fly, and (maybe) a buzzing wand-like thing in his/her hand. Ultra-hard reboot and reformatting, all the way back to 1963 specs.
I thought that is Chibnall's idea of a riveting Doctor/ companian conflict: have basically a version of the same conversation over and over again, for 3 episodes so far, several times per ep.
Y: What's going on?/ You're not fine!/ Why don't you talk to me?!
D: I'm fine! You wouldn't understand! Yap, yap, yap!
It's exhausting. I hope they'll come to blows soon. I'm not sure it will be written well, but right now, I'd be happy for any change. How about this:
Y: We need to talk!
D: (turns around, draws old-fashioned revolver from coat pocket, takes aim at Y): Oi! Shut it!
Y: But.. but...you hate guns!
D: Changed me mind. Didn't I? (Looks to director. Director shrugs.)
Y: But how does that make you feel?
D: (shoots)
BANG (drowned out by loud dramatic music.)
D: I'm fine.
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