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S1 vs. S2 vs. S3 (comparing seasons)

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After 2009, Paramount should have gone all in with Trek but they dragged their feet till Into Darkness came about.
Paramount didn't exactly "drag their feet." A sequel to Trek XI was greenlit a month before XI was even released in theatres, The problem was Orci and Lindelof got into an argument over whether or not Khan should have been in the movie, which resulted in a pause in scriptwriting that lasted for an entire year.
 
Paramount didn't exactly "drag their feet." A sequel to Trek XI was greenlit a month before XI was even released in theatres, The problem was Orci and Lindelof got into an argument over whether or not Khan should have been in the movie, which resulted in a pause in scriptwriting that lasted for an entire year.

Then Paramount should’ve been proactive and brought in other writers to finish the script and get the movie out the door.

Paramount has always been Trek’s worst enemy.
 
The reason I think of synth-Picard as a copy is because you can rework the blank synth brain to be a perfect copy of whatever's going on in the human brain. However, you're not "emptying" the human brain into the synth brain. I don't think it works that way.
Is there any difference? If you move a file on a computer, or you are copying, pasting and then deleting the original it's the same thing.

See also, Thomas Riker, William Boimler etc
 
Is there any difference? If you move a file on a computer, or you are copying, pasting and then deleting the original it's the same thing.

See also, Thomas Riker, William Boimler etc
Yes, the human brain is not a computer, the two are just not comparable. That said, given Star Trek's fantastical science and technology of the late 24th & early 25th century, "copying the consciousness" has been a thing, so I can handwave that. In the case of human and synth Picard... even if you "move" his consciousness from his human brain to his synth brain by "cut and paste," the original is still being deleted, which is still the death of the original Picard. Whether brain function is lost via cut-and-paste or via brain anomaly, it's still the death of the original Picard. Synth Picard is a copy, granted a "perfect" copy as far as anyone knows.

Transporter clones, not quite the same. Haven't seen the Thomas Riker episode since the 90's. Boimler got transporter cloned? I've only seen S1-2. Did I forget or was that in S3-4?
 
Season 2, Episode 2. Kind of an important plot point in that episode with implications that reverberated for the remainder of the season, an odd thing to have forgotten. That's like claiming you'd seen TNG S3 and S4 but forgot Picard was assimilated by the Borg.
I don't obsess over the show, and I've only seen the S2 episodes exactly once each years ago. In all honesty, I couldn't tell you anything that went down in S2 without going to Wikipedia.
 
I mean, it's the whole reason Boimler left the Titan and returned to the Cerritos. Not exactly an obscure detail.
 
I mean, it's the whole reason Boimler left the Titan and returned to the Cerritos. Not exactly an obscure detail.
Again, I saw S2 once three years ago. I don't obsess over the show. It was something that made me laugh, and I moved on. It's been so long, when I give it another go, I'll probably just start the show over as I've forgotten most of S1 too. :beer: I do remember terraforming episode, the holodeck special, Riker and Troi to the rescue in the S1 finale, the show is pretty decent. :)
 
Yes, the human brain is not a computer, the two are just not comparable. That said, given Star Trek's fantastical science and technology of the late 24th & early 25th century, "copying the consciousness" has been a thing, so I can handwave that. In the case of human and synth Picard... even if you "move" his consciousness from his human brain to his synth brain by "cut and paste," the original is still being deleted, which is still the death of the original Picard. Whether brain function is lost via cut-and-paste or via brain anomaly, it's still the death of the original Picard. Synth Picard is a copy, granted a "perfect" copy as far as anyone knows.
Star Trek has always operated that the human consciousness can be moved so Picard struck me as a non issue.
 
Star Trek has always operated that the human consciousness can be moved so Picard struck me as a non issue.
Moved, yes, but this is overly simplistic. How are we defining moved? In the context of synth Picard, he wasn't moved out of his brain into his synth brain. Human Picard died, his conscious digitally copied into the synth brain, a form of cheating death, but human Picard is very much dead. It's why I wanted synth Picard to actually be a character arc in S2-3, but alas, it was reduced to an afterthought.
 
Moved, yes, but this is overly simplistic. How are we defining moved? In the context of synth Picard, he wasn't moved out of his brain into his synth brain. Human Picard died, his conscious digitally copied into the synth brain, a form of cheating death, but human Picard is very much dead. It's why I wanted synth Picard to actually be a character arc in S2-3, but alas, it was reduced to an afterthought.
However the story defines it. Kirk's consciousness was moved. Chakotay's was moved. So the digital copying process may move to some degree as well. After all, if I move a file from one folder to another my computer still calls that copying over sometimes.
 
However the story defines it. Kirk's consciousness was moved. Chakotay's was moved. So the digital copying process may move to some degree as well. After all, if I move a file from one folder to another my computer still calls that copying over sometimes.
When was Kirk's consciousness removed? Watching the show for the first time in a very long time. Chakotay, wasn't that S1 or 2? Same, I don't remember the episode.
If his consciousness wasn't moved there would've been no point to that limbo scene with Data.
I just assumed that was the birth of digital Picard. :shrug: Didn't both Picard and Data acknowledge that Picard had indeed died, now existing in the simulation with Data? Picard walking through the door effectively represented the synth Picard waking up. No?
 
When was Kirk's consciousness removed? Watching the show for the first time in a very long time. Chakotay, wasn't that S1 or 2? Same, I don't remember the episode.
Cathexis for Chakotay, S1E13.

Relevant quote:
Torres: How did you manage to reintegrate his consciousness?"
The Doctor: "It involved three neural transceivers, two cortical stimulators, and fifty gigaquads of computer memory. I would be happy to take you through the process but it would take at least ten hours to explain it all to you. Needless to say it was a remarkable procedure. I would consider writing a paper about it, if there were a convenient forum in which to publish it."


And Kirk and Mulhall in "Return to Tomorrow." Kirk's is stored in a sphere. Plus "Turnabout Intruder" too. In Trek, consciousness is movable.
 
Cathexis for Chakotay, S1E13.

Relevant quote:
Torres: How did you manage to reintegrate his consciousness?"
The Doctor: "It involved three neural transceivers, two cortical stimulators, and fifty gigaquads of computer memory. I would be happy to take you through the process but it would take at least ten hours to explain it all to you. Needless to say it was a remarkable procedure. I would consider writing a paper about it, if there were a convenient forum in which to publish it."
Wasn't Chakotay's situation effectively his spirit being knocked out of his body or something like that? I remember the "alien" moving from crew member to crew member ending up being Chakotay, and Tuvok ended up being possessed by the alien, something like that?
And Kirk and Mulhall in "Return to Tomorrow." Kirk's is stored in a sphere. Plus "Turnabout Intruder" too. In Trek, consciousness is movable.
I understand that, but I'm mostly trying to approach this from real world scientific understanding, as I presume that's what Trek was trying to do at the time the episodes were written. I don't remember "Return to Tomorrow," what was that one about? In "Turnabout Intruder," is that the one where Kirk body swaps with a woman? My understanding is that his brain is remapped to be her, her brain remapped to be Kirk. This had to be done a second time for them to be themselves again.
 
Wasn't Chakotay's situation effectively his spirit being knocked out of his body or something like that? I remember the "alien" moving from crew member to crew member ending up being Chakotay, and Tuvok ended up being possessed by the alien, something like that?
Yes. And establishes it can be separated and reintegrated.


I understand that, but I'm mostly trying to approach this from real world scientific understanding, as I presume that's what Trek was trying to do at the time the episodes were written. I don't remember "Return to Tomorrow," what was that one about
They discover an ancient civilization and three sole survivors, and they are able to move their minds.

We can try to approach it from a scientific perspective we still are bound to look at precedence that previous Trek had established as scientific understanding.
 
They discover an ancient civilization and three sole survivors, and they are able to move their minds.
The original show was frequently tragic, wasn't it? :(
We can try to approach it from a scientific perspective we still are bound to look at precedence that previous Trek had established as scientific understanding.
Fair enough. I just think there's a big difference between organic-to-organic and organic-to-synth. Interestingly, Stargate had an interesting take. Whenever someone was perfectly copied into an android, they were treated as a machine, nothing more alive than a toaster. :eek:
 
Fair enough. I just think there's a big difference between organic-to-organic and organic-to-synth. Interestingly, Stargate had an interesting take. Whenever someone was perfectly copied into an android, they were treated as a machine, nothing more alive than a toaster. :eek:
But in TOS the goal of the three survivors was eventually to be in android bodies.

Chakotay was able to interact with the computer as well as the Doctor needed the computer to perform the procedure to reintegrate his consciousness.

And Trek has a mixed history with androids. You have Data who is somewhat treated at least sentient, and the Doctor who is hit and miss. So there is variety in Trek to treat them as alive to some degree, as well as transferring a mind.

Not sure why Picard gets different treatment.
 
But in TOS the goal of the three survivors was eventually to be in android bodies.

Chakotay was able to interact with the computer as well as the Doctor needed the computer to perform the procedure to reintegrate his consciousness.

And Trek has a mixed history with androids. You have Data who is somewhat treated at least sentient, and the Doctor who is hit and miss. So there is variety in Trek to treat them as alive to some degree, as well as transferring a mind.

Not sure why Picard gets different treatment.
The TOS and Chakotay episodes, I don't remember. Data and the Doctor were never organic to begin with. I guess I'm approaching this from a real world POV. You can be copied into a computer, but your original self still dies.
 
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