S1 Energy problems but holodecks on 24/7

[The Next Generation]

After rewatching S1 again what strikes me, is that in the early episodes they always talk about how they dont have much energy, and the replicators need to be restricted but the holodecks seem always to be running the whole time!

I am sure a holodeck needs far more energy and computer power then the replicators and the first think they should have done to preserve energy, is to reduce the time people are able to use the holodeck to a minimum.

I know its just a tv show but this is one of the flaws that makes voyager sadly unrealistic.

 

[Anwar]

They made up some BS about how the Holodeck's energy supply was incompatible with the rest of the ship.

Really, it's because Jeri Taylor wanted the show to be lighthearted, little tension between crewmembers and holonovel stories. Piller wanted a darker feel, crew tensions, and energy/replicator rationing.

 

[The Next Generation]

Really i didnt know that! But surely the energy must have come somewhere one way or another?
They should have made voyager a little darker, not like bsg but a little like ds9, atleast in the later seasons to show that the crew loses its faith slowly.

I never really got a feeling like they are truly alone out there with no help or support from the federation and there on there own.

 

[Akiraprise]

They made up some BS about how the Holodeck's energy supply was incompatible with the rest of the ship.

Really, it's because Jeri Taylor wanted the show to be lighthearted, little tension between crewmembers and holonovel stories. Piller wanted a darker feel, crew tensions, and energy/replicator rationing.

Yeah, I thought that was BS too. How can any energy on a starship be incompatible with the rest.
Power generated by the warp core or fusion reactors needs to be compatible with the equipment installed in the ship. Unless they're saying that the holodecks have their own power reactors so that the crew can play during emergency situations.

"I'll be right there Captain. I just need to sink the eight ball in the corner pocket. The Borg can wait a few minutes. I've got replicator rations riding on this shot."

 

[kimc]

I guess the writers wanted to keep the possibility open for holodeck stories and reuse all those period sets. Still, if TOS could reuse persiod sets but setting the action on different planets then so could Voyager.

 

[Anwar]

But most of those Period set things were just the overdone "Godlike Aliens mess with the crew" stories. That had overstayed it's welcome by the end of TOS, so why have it repeatedly happen in VOY?

Might as well just do on VOY what they did on NuBSG: When Moore wanted a "Holodeck" story he just had the characters randomly hallucinate and talk with people inside their heads. Those were NuBSG's Holodecks.

 

[dHunter333]

yes i found this annoying too (currently rewatching all of star trek, TOS, TOS MOVIES, TNG 1-5, ds9 same time as rest of tng, voy starting mid season 3 of ds9

currently starting 5 ds9 and 3 voy


anyway yes i found this annoying but what can you do
not the most annoying thing voyager ever did

i already see the crew counts being at 144 or so first episode, and seems about the same 2 years later
which is ok, but as i recall they keep it the same like 4 years after that!

also the photon torpedo count....
i recall it getting higher as the show went on
frankly the episode deadnaught was the first time i saw voy use their photons

next in basics

 

[Timo]

Actually, I don't remember a single mention of an "energy shortage" in any early VOY episode after "Parallax". Or before "Parallax", for that matter.

Even there, the issue didn't seem to bother Janeway much in the "Parallax" briefing. Apparently, shutting down Deck Nine or hooking up the holodecks were both perfectly sufficient measures for alleviating the very temporary problem, and just as apparently, the temporary problem soon went away so that Deck Nine could again be powered up.

Admittedly, in "The Cloud" there's again mention of an energy shortage of sorts, but this time it's not a matter of the efficiency being down 14% (something that Torres apparently fixed already), but of there being a potential fuel source in the Coffee Nebula.

Beyond those two episodes, the ship was not starved of energy - the ship was broken. And she was being fixed all the time, so that towards the end of the season, she wasn't broken any more. And then the Vidiians went and blowed her up good in "Deadlock", and the Kazon did it again in "Basics"... But none of that was a reason to shut down the holodecks.

Instead, regulation of holodeck and replicator privileges was a very handy way for Janeway to maintain discipline and morale. It probably had very little if anything to do with technical problems.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Odo's_Bucket]

yes i found this annoying too (currently rewatching all of star trek, TOS, TOS MOVIES, TNG 1-5, ds9 same time as rest of tng, voy starting mid season 3 of ds9

currently starting 5 ds9 and 3 voy


anyway yes i found this annoying but what can you do
not the most annoying thing voyager ever did

i already see the crew counts being at 144 or so first episode, and seems about the same 2 years later
which is ok, but as i recall they keep it the same like 4 years after that!

also the photon torpedo count....
i recall it getting higher as the show went on
frankly the episode deadnaught was the first time i saw voy use their photons

next in basics

I know they use one in season one's "The Cloud".

 

[stj]

Might as well just do on VOY what they did on NuBSG: When Moore wanted a "Holodeck" story he just had the characters randomly hallucinate and talk with people inside their heads. Those were NuBSG's Holodecks.

That's true enough to be hilarious.

Talking about replicator rations is the same thing as talking about energy shortages. So I think there was a lot of babble about energy shortages on Voyager.

But I think the real objection is not to the holodecks running. First of all, the notion that whatever is inside the holodeck is somehow real, as in the idiotic reference to holographic wine, is really crappy "science." And the way the holodecks scenarios have space unlimited by the size o the holodeck room is even nuttier. The holodecks are objectionable in themselves. But the crazy version of the hologram applies to the Doctor. It reaches the nadir when the Doctor, who doesn't actually breathe, is hailed as a singer in Virtuoso?(!)

Second, any end run around special relativity will still require enormous amounts of power. Voyager's first power shortfall will be for the warp drive. Except that if the ship doesn't go anywhere, you have a miniseries about how everyone dies of old age while the ship takes centuries to get to the next star. Seven years of bottle episodes anyone?

Whining about the lack of privations is wrong. If the ship has the power to warp, then it's got the power for replicators and holodecks. Piller apparently had some sort of bigoted notion that people are always at each others throats in the struggle for privileges. He confused his personal working style with the human condition?

 

[Anwar]

Seeing how people have been endlessly complaining that the characters on VOY should have been hating each other 24/7, it's nice to see someone saying that it would've been dumb for them to be at each others' throats.

 

[kes7]

Seeing how people have been endlessly complaining that the characters on VOY should have been hating each other 24/7, it's nice to see someone saying that it would've been dumb for them to be at each others' throats.

In fairness, I think the criticism is more complicated than that. I won't speak for anyone else, but I know I didn't want to see them at each other's throats or hating each other. I just wanted more acknowledgment that the crew was mixed -- Starfleet and Maquis. They do things differently, have differing values ... there was a lot of opportunity for conflict and resulting growth there that the writers chose to ignore. Instead, we had one or two episodes randomly inserted that revisited the idea, but mostly a "happy family" crew, which was also kind of ridiculous. Even if they had all been Starfleet, seven years together in a ship that small would wear on anyone. I could see them pulling together when it counted, but crabbing on each other a lot otherwise. I think that ultimately, the folks on Voyager just seemed to be having way too much fun considering their situation -- it was unrealistic. It was entertaining TV, though, so I forgive them.

 

[Anwar]

To be fair to the VOY staff, they were ordered directly by UPN to drop any tensions between the crews and have them all get along. They were afraid a show with crew tensions wouldn't make the money they wanted.

 

[KingstonTrekker]

To be fair to the VOY staff, they were ordered directly by UPN to drop any tensions between the crews and have them all get along. They were afraid a show with crew tensions wouldn't make the money they wanted.

In my opinion, this was a colossal mistake and resulted in Voyager being TNG-Lite. Wouldn't it have been cool if the network and producers had taken a Nu-BSG approach to the series? The quest to voyage back to the alpha quadrant, while being pursued by nasty aliens (not the laughable Kaxons "aka Klingons lite"), the ship malfunctioning, real tensions amongst the divided crew of Maquis and Starfleet, the struggle to find supplies, provisions, etc. Would have been a great series -- instead we got pool tables, resorts, pubs, Captain Proton, and small Irish towns on the Holodeck!

 

[exodus]

Actually, I don't remember a single mention of an "energy shortage" in any early VOY episode after "Parallax". Or before "Parallax", for that matter.

Even there, the issue didn't seem to bother Janeway much in the "Parallax" briefing. Apparently, shutting down Deck Nine or hooking up the holodecks were both perfectly sufficient measures for alleviating the very temporary problem, and just as apparently, the temporary problem soon went away so that Deck Nine could again be powered up.

Admittedly, in "The Cloud" there's again mention of an energy shortage of sorts, but this time it's not a matter of the efficiency being down 14% (something that Torres apparently fixed already), but of there being a potential fuel source in the Coffee Nebula.

Beyond those two episodes, the ship was not starved of energy - the ship was broken. And she was being fixed all the time, so that towards the end of the season, she wasn't broken any more. And then the Vidiians went and blowed her up good in "Deadlock", and the Kazon did it again in "Basics"... But none of that was a reason to shut down the holodecks.

Instead, regulation of holodeck and replicator privileges was a very handy way for Janeway to maintain discipline and morale. It probably had very little if anything to do with technical problems.

Timo Saloniemi

You're correct, Timo.

I also recall an ep. during season 2(I think) were Janeway mentions in her Captains Log that they came across and alien species that had technology that helped stretch their energy reserves twice as long. Plus, in "Dark Frontier" Neelix states that space debris broken down in the replicator proves the ship with energy. So if you can power the ship by any junk you find in space, you wouldn't need to use energy from the holodeck.

I'm not sure but I think people my forget what made Voyager a new unique ship was that it was self sustaining to a degree. Having Voyager lost without support 75 thousand light years for Earth was the ultimate test of what it was built for.

 

[Anwar]

while being pursued by nasty aliens (not the laughable Kaxons "aka Klingons lite"),

See, that's something else people just don't get about VOY: They didn't have much of a choice when creating their aliens when it came to overall power. If they made the aliens into strong empires then VOY would've been destroyed in 5 minutes, meaning they had to be weak enough that VOY could escape or defeat them in every encounter.

So it's either make them strong and everyone dies in 5 minutes, or make them weak and get endless cruel criticisms for letting the crew live.

Which is it?

 

[exodus]

while being pursued by nasty aliens (not the laughable Kaxons "aka Klingons lite"),

See, that's something else people just don't get about VOY: They didn't have much of a choice when creating their aliens when it came to overall power. If they made the aliens into strong empires then VOY would've been destroyed in 5 minutes, meaning they had to be weak enough that VOY could escape or defeat them in every encounter.

So it's either make them strong and everyone dies in 5 minutes, or make them weak and get endless cruel criticisms for letting the crew live.

Which is it?

Great point.

 

[KingstonTrekker]

while being pursued by nasty aliens (not the laughable Kaxons "aka Klingons lite"),

See, that's something else people just don't get about VOY: They didn't have much of a choice when creating their aliens when it came to overall power. If they made the aliens into strong empires then VOY would've been destroyed in 5 minutes, meaning they had to be weak enough that VOY could escape or defeat them in every encounter.

So it's either make them strong and everyone dies in 5 minutes, or make them weak and get endless cruel criticisms for letting the crew live.

Which is it?

Actually, I did "get Voyager." And it doesn't have to be as black and white as you suggest. I don't think that my original post referred to the Kazon as being weak in terms of power -- I called them "Klingons lite" -- and I was not talking about their firepower. The Klingons or Romulans did not have overwhelming technology... but they were INTERESTING and ENGAGING -- which the Kazon were not.

I didn't want superpowered aliens --- just interesting ones.

NuBSG featured strong and interesting antagonists and the Battlestar held its own for four seasons. My point was that Voyager could have been like this -- instead we got the Kazon, Malons, etc. When interesting villains were created (Vidiians, Species 8472, Hirogen) they were mishandled for the most part and their potential never realized. That left us with the Borg -- they may have originated in the Delta Quadrant but their overuse made Voyager seem even more like a TNG retread.

 

[Anwar]

The fandom claims that the Vidiians, Hirogen, Krenim, etc were interesting aliens NOW. But I can assure you that back when the show as on the air nobody liked ANY of them. The reason VOY kept using the Borg was because everyone hated every single alien they came up with (even the 8472), and the writers basically went "Fine, whatever, you win. You don't want new aliens then we'll just use the Borg from now on. Hope you're happy."

As for the Cylons, they eventually were revealed to be a bunch of losers anyways. Most of their coolness came from Moore lying to us through his teeth over what they wanted and all that.

Also, in NuBSG the type of space travel they used meant it was possible for them to stay on the run for 4 years with the Cylons not easily tracking them down. With Trek that wouldn't work. And also they had to deal with the Cylon infiltrators while VOY wouldn't have to deal with that problem.

So a lot of the stuff people keep saying worked for BSG don't apply to Trek.

 

[stj]

If you rewatch Year of Hell with open eyes, the way that broken down hulk is supposed to somehow keep going is silly. The scene where the nebula leaks into the ship like a fog is excruciatingly dumb. The Annorax story keeps its interest but every scene with Voyager actually doing something is like having the writer whisper into your ear "Forget sanity, the ship can do this because I say so." If the ship has significant malfunctions, given replicators, they fix them. If they can't, they die horrible deaths.

As for BSG comparisons, when Paris wants to make a new flier, with replicators and incredibly advanced computers (meaning incredibly advanced CAD,) it's handwaving. When BSG wants to make a new flier with out replicators but with retro computers, handwaving turns into a slap in the face. There's a difference between willing suspension of disbelief and being played. That sort of thing is like Moore said to himself, they liked Voyager, I'll give them Voyager.