Spoilers Russell T. Davies Returns to Doctor Who as New Showrunner

[Jedman67]

It seems like D+ sitting on their hands instead of green lighting S3 has kinda screwed over DW. A lot of money poured into a show doesn't mean anything when you effectively cancel it after 2 seasons.

 

[Mr Awe]

That actually was the original plan, but RTD worried that made things feel too final and so arranged to have Billie Piper show up as the new Doctor something like a few weeks before the finale aired so the episode could end with a message of "we are coming back."

Agreed. While I didn't like the finale at all, I do think RTD's reason for bringing in Piper the last minute was a good one. It really would've felt that it was over. And it also changes the narrative (at least to some degree) from it's done to people clamoring to know just who the heck Piper is playing. It's a useful distraction from the lack of a decision by Disney.

 

[jaime]

I still maintain that finales are not Doctor Who's strong suit, at least not in the modern era. RTD's first term, the Moffat and Chibnall eras, the finales were almost always the weakest of the season. In the case of The Reality War in particular, though it's not really all that good an episode in general, the last twenty minutes or so when it's clear we're dealing with rewrites done upon learning this was Gatwa's departure are when the episode becomes absolutely awful.

Well, that's certainly an opinion.

I said *somewhat*
I.e at least the TNG crew went out on a happy note and Data wasn’t dead anymore.
More fitting for that crew.

I don’t think Who *needs* finales at all. Not when things are ticking along fine. Doctors need finales, but we don’t need finales once a year/season. Aside from Parting of the Ways/Bad Wolf and *maybe* Doomsday, RTD has never done a good one. Moff has a better hit rate, but not every time, and the less said about reheated Pirate Planet leftovers and PowerPoint presentations in the Chibnall Era the better.

It is interesting how much RTD tries to emulate the Buffy formula, without (a) quite managing it or (b) realising why it works in Buffy but is never going to work for DW. I think it’s an age thing if I am honest. A bit like how Paul Feige didn’t get what made GhostBusters into what it was — because he wasn’t grasping what it was for the younger half of the audience (i.e not just some screwball comedy with SNL performers, but something closer to an Indiana Jones or a Back to the Future, or even a Star Wars) because he wasn’t coming at it with those eyes.

It’s why all the Sutekh and Omega stuff fails — it’s him doing The Judge, or The Mayor, or any of the Buffy Boss Beings, but not getting what made them work, or what made that *kind* of part-serial storytelling work back when it did. Let alone assuming that was still going to work these days, when it was already hardly fresh when he first tried it in 2005.

The Doctor is not The Slayer, nor should they be.

 

[Jedman67]

I never watched Buffy so those references are lost on me.

 

[jaime]

I never watched Buffy so those references are lost on me.

Big Shiny often CGI monster at the end of a series. Usually hinted at in episodes prior. What Davies doesn’t do is the build up, or what was often a thematic symbol for that series. (Moffat was better at that, now and then) Why it doesn’t work for Who is because despite his best efforts Who isn’t really part-soap opera. The monsters in Buffy often represented something thematic, or the overall season was tied into a sort of aspect of the teen characters maturing.
The monsters in Davies Who often represent having more money than sense.

 

[The Nightmare Doctor]

I like the idea of doing no season finales except for regenerations. It will never happen because of the way modern television is geared towards now.

Hell, it only worked for the show before because of the serial format and still got to play around with the cliffhanger concept (and perhaps far too much there).

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I don't really agree. For the most part, the finale used to be a lot of fun and a big part of my enjoyment of the seasons. Its been struggling, IMO, ever since Chibnall, and surprisingly is RTD2's weakest element easily, though Reality War was a difficult situation with Disney to also deal with.

But before then? Capaldi's finale are the best, overall, especially Heaven Sent and The Doctor Falls in isolation. Series 5 is the definitive finale, the RTD formula perfected with the signature Moffaty timey-whimeyness. And series 1 was such a powerful culmination of the Ninth Doctor's character.

 

[Judge Death]

On the whole some of the finales, especially RTDs and Chibnall's have been my least favourite elements of the modern show, they all seem to involve throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the screen.

That being said, having the finale being just another episode doesn't seem to work either. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos is ok but a bit of a limp season finale.

Occasionally the show hits it out of the park (World Enough and Time/The Doctor Falls being the best example)

 

[jaime]

I don't really agree. For the most part, the finale used to be a lot of fun and a big part of my enjoyment of the seasons. Its been struggling, IMO, ever since Chibnall, and surprisingly is RTD2's weakest element easily, though Reality War was a difficult situation with Disney to also deal with.

But before then? Capaldi's finale are the best, overall, especially Heaven Sent and The Doctor Falls in isolation. Series 5 is the definitive finale, the RTD formula perfected with the signature Moffaty timey-whimeyness. And series 1 was such a powerful culmination of the Ninth Doctor's character.

Moffat did them properly. Because he was better at thematic arcs, rather than the odd breadcrumb. His character work in Who is just… better.
They still weren’t necessarily needed at times, but they were more integral because of how seasons were written.

 

[The Gatekeeper]

Capaldi's finale are the best, overall, especially Heaven Sent and The Doctor Falls in isolation

Heaven Sent is a pretty decent episode, though it leads into Hell Bent, which, oh god, is not that good at all. It's one of the worst offenders in terms of the whole "Moffat Monologue" quote, in that large swathes of that episode are just characters delivering monologues at the audience.

If there's one aspect of Moffat's writing I do not miss it's his habit of having the characters always communicating in monologues.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Hell Bent is a genuinely gold episode, and according to Elizabeth Sandifer, arguably better than Heaven Sent.

Certainly is a fantastic showcase of how far would the Doctor go for any of his companions, especially if he loved them like he did Clara.

 

[Jedman67]

I like Heavent Sent/Hell Bent; and you need it to really watch it as a trilogy with Face The Raven.

Does HB have some sticky parts? Yeah, but it wouldn't be DW without it.