Russell T. Davies Returns to Doctor Who as New Showrunner

[jaime]

Shalka?
Dimensions in Time?
16 versions of Shada?

The last eighth doctor novel went to lengths to make all the contradictions of the wilderness years (even the ones that didn’t quite happen) possible all at once. Big Finish did something similar around Zagreus as well, if memory serves. A way to sort of knit it all together ready for the then nascent new series.
The novel was The Gallifrey Chronicles, and there’s loads of stuff in interviews what have you (including the legendary ‘we can’t do the time war somewhere else because the Beeb have rules about that sort of thing’ articles and discussions)

 

[Mr Awe]

We see him die in Turn Left by drowning...I think surviving an A-bomb may be expecting too much.

I'm not sure what Jack has to do with the TC though? A red herring. TC's origins and nature are different from Jack's.

 

[Mr Awe]

Why do people try to win arguments by saying "that's not canon" if canon is just each person's own opinion? Because canon isn't each person's opinion, it's what the people running a show say it is. And the people running Doctor Who have never declared what is or isn't canon. Anyone who argues that something isn't canon in Doctor Who is wrong from the minute they mention the word.

Personally, I just think it's funny when someone says in one post that the TC is canon so accept it. But then in the next post says Doctor Who doesn't have a canon! Um, there's a disconnect there!

 

[Steve Roby]

Shalka?
Dimensions in Time?
16 versions of Shada?

Until someone on the show says otherwise, sure, why not? They can all fit in somewhere. Alternate universe, hiccup in the Time War, adventures in the Land of Fiction, whatever. Throw in Faction Paradox and Erimem and Iris Wildthyme, too. There's a million ways to rationalize everything if you feel you need to.

I watch Doctor Who not because it has an extremely strict set of rules and restraints about what counts (it doesn't), but because Doctor Who is fun. I like fun. Fun is good. The Doctor Who Magazine comic strips, the Big Finish audios, all the novels and the semi-official spinoffs, they all add to the fun. If folks like Davies, Moffat, and Chibnall haven't tried to take all that away from me, and they haven't, I'm going to keep on enjoying everything.

Personally, I just think it's funny when someone says in one post that the TC is canon so accept it. But then in the next post says Doctor Who doesn't have a canon! Um, there's a disconnect there!

Canon in the first point means it's something that happened in the show. Canon in the second point means a clearly delineated set of rules and constraints, defined and imposed by an authority, on what can be considered "real" Doctor Who. The first one should probably use continuity instead of canon.

 

[Captaindemotion]

I watch Doctor Who not because it has an extremely strict set of rules and restraints about what counts (it doesn't), but because Doctor Who is fun. I like fun. Fun is good.

Correct. This is the right attitude, IMHO

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Personally, I just think it's funny when someone says in one post that the TC is canon so accept it. But then in the next post says Doctor Who doesn't have a canon! Um, there's a disconnect there!

Makes ya think.

 

[jaime]

I like when stories build on each other, sometimes in unimportant ways, sometimes important ways. Doctor Who has been rather good at that for rather a long time (particularly when it wasn’t on telly… but the building on past stories arguably started in seventies under Pertwee, and grew from there, reaching its onscreen classics zenith in Remembrance of the Daleks.)
Going forward seems a good way to do things, occasionally having a glance back to remind people why you are doing what you are doing.
Going back with a pick axe to write your name in the foundation, so it looks like the barnacle you stuck on top fits in, strikes me as the work of a person lacking in both confidence and imagination.
It is one thing to stand on the shoulder of giants, quite another to cut off their legs to make yourself seem taller.

 

[Mr Awe]

Going forward seems a good way to do things, occasionally having a glance back to remind people why you are doing what you are doing.

Yup, create interesting, intriguing, fun, etc. storylines going forward. Let the past be. There's no reason to go monkeying around trying to rewrite it. Make something new that grabs people going forward.

 

[Steve Roby]

Going back with a pick axe to write your name in the foundation, so it looks like the barnacle you stuck on top fits in, strikes me as the work of a person lacking in both confidence and imagination.
It is one thing to stand on the shoulder of giants, quite another to cut off their legs to make yourself seem taller.

Yup, create interesting, intriguing, fun, etc. storylines going forward. Let the past be. There's no reason to go monkeying around trying to rewrite it.

Yes, I too remember many people being upset with Moffat changing the character of the First Doctor in "Twice Upon a Time."

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I remember people saying Moffat had made some weird choices with the First Doctor's character at the time, but I hadn't seen the classic series so I couldn't tell anything was wrong myself.

Then I did a classic Doctor Who marathon the next summer, watched all the surviving First Doctor stories, and realised that he did not do him justice. Twice Upon a Time's still a good episode I reckon, but Moffat either didn't do the research or he deliberately changed the character to suit the scenes he had in mind, and that's a real shame.

 

[Mr Awe]

Yes, I too remember many people being upset with Moffat changing the character of the First Doctor in "Twice Upon a Time."

I'd agree that Moffat didn't make a good choice with that. I think Moffat was going for a combination of the humor (via Bill's reaction) and a bit of look at how much the times have changed. But at least it wasn't rewriting the foundations of the entire program--so it's small potatoes compared to the TC. Overall, I enjoyed Twice Upon a Time.

 

[Steve Roby]

Okay, then. What are the foundations of the entire program, that apply from 1963 through 2022?

 

[Photoman15]

My canon is my canon, that is how my canon works, what you choose to view as canon is your choice.

You don't understand the definition of canon.

 

[Mr Awe]

Okay, then. What are the foundations of the entire program, that apply from 1963 through 2022?

See the Timeless Child! It's changing the origins and nature of the character. The "first" Doctor is no longer first, and so on.

Whether you care for the Timeless Child is a fair point you can debate. However, it's self-evident that it rewrites the foundation of the series. There's no debating that.

@Allyn Gibson has done a great, creative job making it fit, but it's a massive rewrite!

 

[diankra]

You don't understand the definition of canon.

Canon is everything in the prime text. It may be contradictory.

 

[Steve Roby]

See the Timeless Child! It's changing the origins and nature of the character. The "first" Doctor is no longer first, and so on.

Whether you care for the Timeless Child is a fair point you can debate. However, it's self-evident that it rewrites the foundation of the series. There's no debating that.

Well, it's true that it's hard to debate something that still hasn't been defined.

 

[Mr Awe]

Well, it's true that it's hard to debate something that still hasn't been defined.

It's self-evident that changing the nature and origin of the Doctor and where and how each Doctor fits within the Doctor's timeline is rewriting the foundation of the series.

Being deliberately obtuse about that is not making your case. Weak sauce.

I'm glad you like the Timeless Child. But don't pretend that it's not changing things on a large scale about the Doctor's personal history. Some people are fine with those changes. That's cool. Others don't care for them. That's also cool.

However, pretending those changes don't exist is just silly.

 

[DigificWriter]

It's self-evident that changing the nature and origin of the Doctor and where and how each Doctor fits within the Doctor's timeline is rewriting the foundation of the series.

Chibnall wasn't the first (or even the only) Doctor Who Showrunner/Script Editor to do this; Terrance Dicks slash Robert Holmes did it with The Brain of Morbius back in 1975 and Steven Moffat did it with Time/Day of the Doctor back in 2013.

 

[Mr Awe]

^ I never said he was. What's that got to do with anything?

 

[DigificWriter]

^ I never said he was. What's that got to do with anything?

You're acting like Chibnall doing it is anathema,, but Terrance Dicks/Robert Holmes and Moffatt doing it was okay.