Spoilers Russell T. Davies Returns to Doctor Who as New Showrunner

[Mr Awe]

Is it? I was getting the be under the impression that at this point it was failing, and barely surviving on just enough of the hardcore fanbase to keep it on the right side of cancelation.
Wasn't the Disney deal and whatever next deal they make with someone else, their last desparate attempts to keep from having to canceling it?

I think Disney was an effort to globalize DW to a larger degree. I'm not sure that it was failing but I would agree that it was dwindling. But there's a difference between that and failing.

I've often thought the pinnacle of DW's global footprint in terms of social awareness was Day of the Doctor. That it has been slowly dwindling since then. I loved Capaldi's era but it has been declining since then.

I'm just not sure that a sporadic few episodes will be enough to revive it. Keep it going amongst fans, possibly. Grow it with new fans, less likely.

 

[jaime]

Or keep the real estate and keep running the show in tandem with Doctor Who. Dimensions in Time: The Next Regeneration!

Pretty sure it’s all canon anyway. Arthur’s death is a fixed point in time.

But we need to sack the whole Eastenders cast and crew to save the money. Though… we may have to keep Adam Woodyat (Ian I think) as his pension and redundancy after forty bloody years will bankrupt the nation.

 

[JD]

I think Disney was an effort to globalize DW to a larger degree. I'm not sure that it was failing but I would agree that it was dwindling. But there's a difference between that and failing.

OK, it might not be as bad off as I thought then.

I've often thought the pinnacle of DW's global footprint in terms of social awareness was Day of the Doctor. That it has been slowly dwindling since then. I loved Capaldi's era but it has been declining since then.

Oh yeah, that was a big deal, at least in the nerd world, but I think the real height of it's popularity was during David Tennant's original run.

I'm just not sure that a sporadic few episodes will be enough to revive it. Keep it going amongst fans, possibly. Grow it with new fans, less likely.

There are plenty of streaming and cable shows that have built up pretty significant fanbases with only a few episodes a season. I think as long as the episodes are consistently good, it will draw people in no matter how few episodes they have.

 

[Mr Awe]

OK, it might not be as bad off as I thought then.

Oh yeah, that was a big deal, at least in the nerd world, but I think the real height of it's popularity was during David Tennant's original run.

There are plenty of streaming and cable shows that have built up pretty significant fanbases with only a few episodes a season. I think as long as the episodes are consistently good, it will draw people in no matter how few episodes they have.

Going by my personal experience, I had heard more DW references in the general public (i.e., non-nerds, long time fans, etc.) after Tennant's run and during Smith's run. Also, peak appearances of merch in stores (e.g., Barnes and Noble) appeared during Smith's run, at least in my area. But, that's obviously not necessarily representative. However, it does feel right to me for here in the States.

Well, we can hope that your right!

 

[Steve Roby]

I loved Capaldi's era but it has been declining since then.

My understanding, whiich I think came from articles in Doctor Who Magazine, is that the ratings took a nosedive during the Capaldi era, though a lot of people like to blame the Whittaker/Chibnall era. For viewers who started with Tennant or Smith, a significantly older and harsher Doctor was not what they expected. Meanwhile, the age of BBC iPlayer in the UK and Netflix had begun, which started to affect the ratings of a lot of broadcast shows.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I just don't think, as fans, our first reaction should be "Sherlock formating for this show could actually work, actually"

 

[jaime]

My understanding, whiich I think came from articles in Doctor Who Magazine, is that the ratings took a nosedive during the Capaldi era, though a lot of people like to blame the Whittaker/Chibnall era. For viewers who started with Tennant or Smith, a significantly older and harsher Doctor was not what they expected. Meanwhile, the age of BBC iPlayer in the UK and Netflix had begun, which started to affect the ratings of a lot of broadcast shows.

It wasn’t really a nosedive, more a steady decline. The only nosedives were when the audience would peak again for a new Doctor, then plummet for the series proper.

I just don't think, as fans, our first reaction should be "Sherlock formating for this show could actually work, actually"

More at the ‘well, it’s better than nothing’ stage.

 

[Rich Watson]

My understanding, whiich I think came from articles in Doctor Who Magazine, is that the ratings took a nosedive during the Capaldi era, though a lot of people like to blame the Whittaker/Chibnall era.

Most of Whitaker's episodes did beter than Capaldi's last series did.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Most of Whitaker's episodes did beter than Capaldi's last series did.

But...but...Chibnall ruined everything!!!

 

[jaime]

I don’t think that’s what the overnight figures showed, but I stand to be corrected. I wouldn’t be surprised — Sunday night versus Saturday night after all.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

My understanding, whiich I think came from articles in Doctor Who Magazine, is that the ratings took a nosedive during the Capaldi era, though a lot of people like to blame the Whittaker/Chibnall era. For viewers who started with Tennant or Smith, a significantly older and harsher Doctor was not what they expected. Meanwhile, the age of BBC iPlayer in the UK and Netflix had begun, which started to affect the ratings of a lot of broadcast shows.

I used to do the monthly sales charts for Diamond Comic Distributors, and I have an anecdote about the Capaldi Collapse.

Titan Comics, after they picked up the Doctor Who comics license from IDW, was initially quite successful with Doctor Who comics. They had an aggressive plan -- ongoing monthlies for Tennant, Smith, and Capaldi -- and each of these titles routinely sold in the 10k range each month. For a licensed comic, that's a good number!

After a year, they did a multi-Doctor crossover, Paul Cornell's Four Doctors. (There are actually five, arguably six Doctors, if one counts the alt future twelfth Doctor as a different Doctor.) This sold very well, about 15k an issue.

Comics in the direct market are sold on a non-returnable basis, so stores aren't generally going to order more of a title than they know they can sell. Based on the numbers over Titan's first sixteen or so months publishing Doctor Who comics, there was clearly a market.

The market evaporated after Four Doctors in the autumn of 2015. Titan's titles were selling at much lower quantities than they had been before the crossover. Partly, that was Titan's own fault; they added an Eccleston series and various mini-series, which would bite into consumer dollars, but it seemed pretty clear to me, just from the sales figures, that the Capaldi era was turning people off to Doctor Who.

 

[bdub76]

I think Disney was an effort to globalize DW to a larger degree. I'm not sure that it was failing but I would agree that it was dwindling. But there's a difference between that and failing.

I've often thought the pinnacle of DW's global footprint in terms of social awareness was Day of the Doctor. That it has been slowly dwindling since then. I loved Capaldi's era but it has been declining since then.

I'm just not sure that a sporadic few episodes will be enough to revive it. Keep it going amongst fans, possibly. Grow it with new fans, less likely.

This is spot on.

Its decline really happened with Capaldi, and then it continued to go downhill since. Now, each of these Doctor's eras including Capaldi do have some outstanding episodes, but the show's viewership has been dropping since.

Of course, the recent run on Disney+ didn't help. I think, this is a function of the show being overly progressive, rather than targeting a broad audience, which is Disney's bread and butter. They want media that will work for the broadest audience, and it didn't help that they were already receiving backlash for some of their more progressive attempts recently on top of the super hero genre also declining.

 

[jaime]

This is spot on.

Its decline really happened with Capaldi, and then it continued to go downhill since. Now, each of these Doctor's eras including Capaldi do have some outstanding episodes, but the show's viewership has been dropping since.

Of course, the recent run on Disney+ didn't help. I think, this is a function of the show being overly progressive, rather than targeting a broad audience, which is Disney's bread and butter. They want media that will work for the broadest audience, and it didn't help that they were already receiving backlash for some of their more progressive attempts recently on top of the super hero genre also declining.

There’s progressive and progressive tbh.
Or to put it another way, once you’re preaching to the choir it’s probably even less useful if you’re also doing it in Pig Latin and have bouncers on the church door.

 

[Brendan Moody]

I think it’s important to draw a distinction between the show’s position within global/online SFF fandom discourse, which has declined sharply, and its position within the landscape of British TV, where it has slipped a bit but still remains a solid performer. The show’s raw viewership is down because all raw viewership in the UK is down, but its relative performance as reflected in chart positions doesn’t suggest the show is any specific danger, beyond the general uncertainty around the future of the BBC given how fragmented audiences are.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I think it’s important to draw a distinction between the show’s position within global/online SFF fandom discourse, which has declined sharply, and its position within the landscape of British TV, where it has slipped a bit but still remains a solid performer. The show’s raw viewership is down because all raw viewership in the UK is down, but its relative performance as reflected in chart positions doesn’t suggest the show is any specific danger, beyond the general uncertainty around the future of the BBC given how fragmented audiences are.

Besides, on the general bit about the show "declining" in rating during Capaldi...it totally makes sense, given the show began huge under Tennant and Smith (and indeed peaked, as mentioned, by the time Day of the Doctor), and it is as simple as "the Doctor as a really old, grumpy and self-absorded ass" that he was during season 8's main episodes didn't do the teen/young fans who swooned over Tennant and Smith (who, for all their incarnations faults, were decidedly more heroid and openly empathetic). any favours. Yet still, the Capaldi was generally well-received critically and the loyal fans, and Whittaker's era almost revitalized the show...until it didn't,

 

[JD]

Going by my personal experience, I had heard more DW references in the general public (i.e., non-nerds, long time fans, etc.) after Tennant's run and during Smith's run. Also, peak appearances of merch in stores (e.g., Barnes and Noble) appeared during Smith's run, at least in my area. But, that's obviously not necessarily representative. However, it does feel right to me for here in the States.

Well, we can hope that your right!

OK, I might have been mistaken then. I guess it just seems like people get way more excited for stuff related to Tennant than Smith, and I see more merchandise for Tennant than Smith, so I assumed that meant that his era was more popular. It just seems like more often than not when new Who comes up somewhere, it's something to do with Tennant.