Russell T. Davies Returns to Doctor Who as New Showrunner

[Photoman15]

^ Fugitive of the Judoon, The Timeless Children, the entirety of Flux, and The Power of the Doctor clearly establish within their own narratives that The Fugitive Doctor is pre-Hartnell, in turn establishing and reinforcing the fact that the explanation that every Doctor from Hartnell on gives for the TARDIS' appearance is the truth only insofar as they are aware of their own history but is not in fact the truth at all since it is established in Fugitive of the Judoon that the TARDIS did in fact appear as a police box long before the events of An Unearthly Child.

None of those episodes establish ANYTHING about The Fugitive Doctor being Pre-Hartnell. Just because we're "finding out" about previous incarnations and The Fugitive Doctor (TFD) makes an appearance or two is NOT a direct line to the conclusion that TFD is Pre-Hartnell.
Sorry, Hartnell's Doctor landed the TARDIS is 1963 and it took a local form and broke. Any Pre-Hartnell Doctor (except thru telepathy) would not know the phone box was the TARDIS.
The Phone Booth TARDIS has been traveling all around time. It's NOT established that the TARDIS appeared as a police box owned by anyone but Hartnell and the 14 Doctors since him.
That's all "viewers" backstory. Never shown/said. The production team just used the phone booth for TFD for ease (and maybe laziness) or the continuity department or Chibliss didn't care

 

[jaime]

I dunno man, it’s so offensive this adherence to Morbius canon — everyone knows the saviour of Doctor Who, a true fan, who brought it back from the wilderness, was absolutely right when they showed us the Doctor was half human. On his mother’s side.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

If she is pre-Harnell, why is her TARDIS a Police Phone Box from the UK circa 1963 whose chameleon circuit broke under Hartnells' care?

The real answer is because Chris Chibnall clearly forgot that niggling detail as he was more concerned with a shock reveal about there existing more incarnations of the Doctor.

Because, it was his stupidity.

 

[jaime]

The real answer is because Chris Chibnall clearly forgot that niggling detail as he was more concerned with a shock reveal about there existing more incarnations of the Doctor.

Because, it was his stupidity.

It is entirely possible that *at that point* he didn’t intend it to be pre-Hartnell at all. It’s also entirely possible he picked fast and easy, and a very strict literal adherence to ‘show don’t tell’ that was cheap and quick to set up. It’s also extremely likely that he simply didn’t give a monkeys (it’s hardly the only detail he ignored — he ignored about ninety percent of the stuff modern who had used and built up too, I don’t think he could have forgotten stuff he was literally present for) in fact I sometimes wonder if the Morbius thing isn’t a real life retcon — in the sense he wasn’t thinking about it at all when working on Fugitive or TC, but it’s a handy figleaf found by the fans after the fact.

 

[Captaindemotion]

SFX has a spoiler free review of the first two episodes, which is broadly positive but does acknowledge that they may divide fans.
https://www.gamesradar.com/doctor-who-season-one-spoiler-free-review-episodes-one-two/

 

[Tuskin38]

The real answer is because Chris Chibnall clearly forgot that niggling detail

I doubt he literally forgot it.

 

[Rich Watson]

There's an absolute deluge of reviews out there now all the pretty much the same; broadly positive while making it clear the series isn't even trying to pretend to be SF any more.

 

[Mr Awe]

If she is pre-Harnell, why is her TARDIS a Police Phone Box from the UK circa 1963 whose chameleon circuit broke under Hartnells' care?

Chibnall's intention was that her Doctor directly precedes Hartnell's. Jo Martin told me that herself. Of course, future showrunners can change that if they want.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I doubt he literally forgot it.

And yet, the evidence is, he did.

Mind, originally the Jo Martin Time Lord wasn't gonna be a Doctor incarnation, just another Time Lord. But Chibnall changed his mind and, well, what I said above.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

In case anyone is interested - the BBC official Dr Who channel has uploaded a behind the scenes feature on the casting of Ncuti Gatwa and it shows images of the previous Doctor's before Ncuti and Jo Martin is before Hartnell.

 

[Brendan Moody]

Of course, the broader problem with “the TARDIS landed in Totter’s Lane and turned into a police box, and then the chameleon circuit broke” is that a police box doesn’t belong in a junkyard. Ian even points this out in the first episode. (“It's a police box! What on earth's it doing here? These things are usually on the street.”)

It’s almost as if the tone and atmosphere are more important than the plot logic or something…

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

In case anyone is interested - the BBC official Dr Who channel has uploaded a behind the scenes feature on the casting of Ncuti Gatwa and it shows images of the previous Doctor's before Ncuti and Jo Martin is before Hartnell.

That really pisses me off.

 

[jaime]

Of course, the broader problem with “the TARDIS landed in Totter’s Lane and turned into a police box, and then the chameleon circuit broke” is that a police box doesn’t belong in a junkyard. Ian even points this out in the first episode. (“It's a police box! What on earth's it doing here? These things are usually on the street.”)

It’s almost as if the tone and atmosphere are more important than the plot logic or something…

They were being phased out weren’t they, even then?
Though The Doctor, the original you might say, also has a rather obvious soliloquy asking why it hasn’t changed this time, and how that is strange.
Of course, we have to start at The Daleks now, so that will be increasingly harder to notice.
It is quite important — this is literally the introduction to the Ships ability to travel in time and space after all. It’s not like calling the Chameleon Circuit a Cloaking Device when the Tardis translates into Californian years later. It’s also not the the only time it comes up — in fact it’s a plot point in Logopolis, and a more minor one in Attack of the Cybermen. (And the Monk, Master and Rani all have ones that work. As the Doctors must have done, as seen on screen in Day of the Doctor, and as covered by his dialogue.)
There’s also the niggling problem that as Fugitive is not a period piece — though maybe you could squint and set it anywhere in this century so far — then the Police Box disguise makes absolutely no sense. There’s very few left after all (and those would likely have gone by now were it not for the show) and there’s no way Chef!Doctor has been here *that* long.
(The lighthouse would have been a better Tardis in fact. For once, bloody massive on the outside.)
The ‘it read the thirteenths mind’ thing would make a nice sense, if it weren’t for the fact that *at no point does the Tardis pass the history to the Doctor at the multiple times it could have* and the fact that Chef!Doctor never says a word about its changed appearance.
The breaking of Gallifreyan Mean Time (offscreen description) and the complete ignoring of the First Law of Time (mentioned multiple times) being broken doesn’t make a lot of sense either — it feels like a lead in for a very different story to what we ended up being given.

The problem is, RTD is one of those who is sometimes a little ashamed of the shows history — understandable, there was a time where being a Who fan as looked down on, and even tantamount to being ‘queer’, associated somehow, in an era where that had less protection and less cachet than today — which is why I do not think he is going to deal much with any of the wrinkles this introduces. Moffat on the other hand? Well. Maybe I and others will get lucky, and maybe his episode(s) are going to at least iron it out a bit. He knows his stuff, and also isn’t shy about using it in interesting ways. RTD is more of a use it as seasoning rarely kind of guy.

 

[jaime]

That really pisses me off.

Alas, it was always going to come wasn’t it. The Orwellian rewrite. We have always been at war with Oceania. They should have perhaps fit her in around Thirteen somewhere, as that’s where she appeared.
For all his faults, Hartnell is where it began, and he earned his place, and should be shown first.

 

[Mr Awe]

That really pisses me off.

I'm not a big fan of it but it was Chibnall's intention from the start and at least I love Jo Martin's Fugitive Doctor. There are far worse things to be upset over (i.e., it's not worth it).

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

I'm not even arguing she doesn't count, just don't place her before Hartnell. That's bullshit.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm not even arguing she doesn't count, just don't place her before Hartnell. That's bullshit.

As has already been said, shes pre-Hartnell; deal with it.

The Morbius Doctors are (and were always intended to be) also pre-Hartnell, so deal with that too.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Do you strive to be unlikeable? If you do, you're succeeding.

 

[DarrenTR1970]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

The words of producer Philip Hinchcliffe: "We tried to get famous actors for the faces of the Doctor. But because no one would volunteer, we had to use backroom boys. And it is true to say that I attempted to imply that William Hartnell was not the first Doctor."

Chiball didn't do anything that Philip Hinchcliffe didn't do almost 50 years ago; and, in 'The War Games' the Second Doctor said that Time Lords have can live forever, barring accidents.

Then there's this exchange between the Fourth Doctor and Runcible from 'The Deadly Assassin'.

DOCTOR: Runcible, my dear chap. How nice to see you.
RUNCIBLE: What? Oh, I don't believe we've, er. Oh, I say. Weren't you expelled or something? Some scandal?
DOCTOR: Oh, it's all been forgotten about now, old boy.
RUNCIBLE: Oh, really? Well, where've you been all these years?
DOCTOR: Oh, here and there, you know. Round and about.
(The Doctor bends over to keep his face hidden from the searching guards.)
RUNCIBLE: Is there something the matter?
DOCTOR: Oh no, just a twinge in the knee.
RUNCIBLE: Well, if you will lead such a rackety life. Have you had a facelift?
DOCTOR: Several, so far.

Robert Holmes co-wrote 'The Brain of Morbius' and wrote 'The Deadly Assassin'. Had Producer Phillip Hinchcliffe and Script Editor Robert Holmes not left at the end of the fourteenth season, who knows if they would have explored this avenue further.

 

[jaime]

As has already been said, shes pre-Hartnell; deal with it.

The Morbius Doctors are (and were always intended to be) also pre-Hartnell, so deal with that too.

You’re missing the point. Whatever is said in-universe, out here in the real world, when presenting previous actors or what have you, it starts with Hartnell. Or should.