Ron Moore's Voyager

[Anwar]

Not really, I mean there wouldn't have been any sense of urgency or greater danger. With NuBSG the Fleet was all that was left of their civilization, meaning it WOULD be a loss if they were destroyed. VOY was just one ship all by it's lonesome and it wouldn't have mattered in the greater scheme of things if it were destroyed.

At least with TNG and DS9 whenever there WERE big situations like the Borg or Dominion we were left with the sense of what a great danger they posed to the entire Trekverse.

 

[Akiraprise]

Voyager was a universe unto itself.

A universe that was all peaches and cream by the end of each episode thanks to Q's quick snap of his fingers every time something bad happened to the crew. He had a soft spot for Kathy so he never let anything terrible happen to her. There, now we have an in universe explanation for Voyagers inconsistency.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Janeway would have got laid a lot more, that's for sure.

Felix Gaeta was basically Harry Kim if he had been given room to grow.

Mr Toads wild ride.

 

[Praetor]

Voyager was a universe unto itself.

A universe that was all peaches and cream by the end of each episode thanks to Q's quick snap of his fingers every time something bad happened to the crew. He had a soft spot for Kathy so he never let anything terrible happen to her. There, now we have an in universe explanation for Voyagers inconsistency.

A Q did it? Nice.

 

[TheGodBen]

A Q did it? Nice.

Now we really are talking about Ron Moore's Voyager.

 

[Gotham Central]

Despite the fact that there were 'references' to the crew integration throughout season one in specifically story-relevant episodes, I don't think anyone has yet pointed out the fact that the decision to join crews and adopt Starfleet mores and uniforms took place off screen sometime after the climax of 'Caretaker' and the beginning of Janeway's end speech.

I have always hated that.

Ron Moore would have actually shown that discussion, and actually explored it. Hell, he would have probably made the third episode about it, at least.

Ron Moore would have written the scene alright, but the episode would run over by 30 minutes and it would have been cut.

WRONG!

He would have just padded the script with a few flashbacks and made a two parter.

 

[Gotham Central]

Not really, I mean there wouldn't have been any sense of urgency or greater danger. With NuBSG the Fleet was all that was left of their civilization, meaning it WOULD be a loss if they were destroyed. VOY was just one ship all by it's lonesome and it wouldn't have mattered in the greater scheme of things if it were destroyed.

At least with TNG and DS9 whenever there WERE big situations like the Borg or Dominion we were left with the sense of what a great danger they posed to the entire Trekverse.

The episodes Equinox 1&2 proves your argument hollow.

The thing that I hated most about Equinox was the immediate realization that following the journey of the USS Equinox would have been more more interesting than the casual stroll across the DQ we got on Voyager.

Equinox is a vision of a Voyager series that might have been.

 

[Anwar]

The episodes Equinox 1&2 proves your argument hollow.

Care to elaborate on that?

The thing that I hated most about Equinox was the immediate realization that following the journey of the USS Equinox would have been more more interesting than the casual stroll across the DQ we got on Voyager.

Equinox is a vision of a Voyager series that might have been.

I hear that over and over, and I just don't get it. The adventures of Equinox would've just been a series about an incompetent captain who got nearly everyone killed, the remaining crew who had no redeeming qualities whatsoever and we were supposed to not care that these guys were committing arbitrary genocide.

It's not a bad thing that the VOY crew didn't get anyone senselessly killed or instantly devolve into savages at the first sign of bad times. Maybe viewers just were upset that VOY didn't fall apart immediately because that's how they think THEY would act in that situation.

 

[Guy Gardener]

janeway was kinda crap too, because their adventures were ridiculous... She was losing mostly 1 0r 2 crew every adventure, and then there's every other adventure we didn't see... after a hundred and forty odd episodes she should have lost at least a hundred and 40 crew.

Kirk lost at least on average 4 redsirts an episode and he wasn't a pisspoor captain was he?

 

[Gotham Central]

janeway was kinda crap too, because their adventures were ridiculous... She was losing mostly 1 0r 2 crew every adventure, and then there's every other adventure we didn't see... after a hundred and forty odd episodes she should have lost at least a hundred and 40 crew.

Kirk lost at least on average 4 redsirts an episode and he wasn't a pisspoor captain was he?

The funny part about that is the fact that even though they lost red shirts all the time, they still managed to have 150 crew members at the end of the series. The Doctor must of set up a cloning facility somewhere on the ship. On the up side, this idiotic aspect of Voyager did prompt Ron Moore to include the rolling headcount at the opening of each BSG episode. You can definately tell that the lazy writing on Voyager really bothered him.

 

[JoeZhang]

hear that over and over, and I just don't get it. The adventures of Equinox would've just been a series about an incompetent captain who got nearly everyone killed, the remaining crew who had no redeeming qualities whatsoever and we were supposed to not care that these guys were committing arbitrary genocide.

Except for the genocide, doesn't seem any different from what we got!

 

[Anwar]

Or he just wanted to show how "dark and intense" the story was by having them show how a bunch of faceless nameless extras were dying all the time off-screen without really affecting the plot. It's just for shock value, not real drama or plot advancement.

JoeZhang: I had a feeling someone would make a post like that, seems people can't accept that it's possible to do a "Lost far from home" story without being all dark, angsty and bloody.

 

[TheGodBen]

Or he just wanted to show how "dark and intense" the story was by having them show how a bunch of faceless nameless extras were dying all the time off-screen without really affecting the plot. It's just for shock value, not real drama or plot advancement.

The survivor counter was emotionally involving for me. When the show came back in season 3 and the survivor counter had dropped by around 5,000 people during the four months of occupation it helped me to understand the hardship these people were enduring, and when the counter dropped below 40,000 for the first time due to the attack in the season 4 premier I found myself really worried for the survival of these people. The counter only worked because the show was good enough to pull me into these people's world and I cared about their survival, but the counter still worked.

 

[exodus]

janeway was kinda crap too, because their adventures were ridiculous... She was losing mostly 1 0r 2 crew every adventure, and then there's every other adventure we didn't see... after a hundred and forty odd episodes she should have lost at least a hundred and 40 crew.

Kirk lost at least on average 4 redsirts an episode and he wasn't a pisspoor captain was he?

The funny part about that is the fact that even though they lost red shirts all the time, they still managed to have 150 crew members at the end of the series. The Doctor must of set up a cloning facility somewhere on the ship. On the up side, this idiotic aspect of Voyager did prompt Ron Moore to include the rolling headcount at the opening of each BSG episode. You can definately tell that the lazy writing on Voyager really bothered him.

IMO, if Ron Moore cared about Voyager so much, he wouldn't have walked after only two eps. Doesn't sound like a man that ever had any intention of staying to me.

Besides, how hard could it have been to write nuBSG when more than half the show was already written out for you? Seriously, what creativity went into it if the show is based on a completed series that already aired & you just add elements you were going to use on a pre-existing show you walked out on?

If that's all it takes, then every single last one of us in this post can be a writer/producer based upon our ideas of rewriting Voyager.

 

[JoeZhang]

Or he just wanted to show how "dark and intense" the story was by having them show how a bunch of faceless nameless extras were dying all the time off-screen without really affecting the plot. It's just for shock value, not real drama or plot advancement.

JoeZhang: I had a feeling someone would make a post like that, seems people can't accept that it's possible to do a "Lost far from home" story without being all dark, angsty and bloody.

I don't need dark, angsty and bloody - I do however require stories that have some truth in them about how people interact, otherwise it might as well be a cast of robots. As for all this BSG talk, never seen it, so it doesn't influence my thinking.

 

[TheGodBen]

IMO, if Ron Moore cared about Voyager so much, he wouldn't have walked after only two eps. Doesn't sound like a man that ever had any intention of staying to me.

Why would Ron Moore care about Voyager? He had a chance to work on the show from the beginning, but he chose to work on DS9 because Ira Behr told him their plans for that show and Moore apparently found it a more attractive proposition. And when he joined DS9 he was treated with respect from the start; he was tasked with writing the first episode of season 3 and he was apparently given some creative control in designing the Defiant. Ira Behr and Michael Piller delegated a lot of influence to the staff writers.

In contrast, Voyager didn't have that sort of creative freedom amongst the writing staff, perhaps because of network interference. Moore didn't like working in an environment where he didn't have creative freedom, he felt like he was being kept out of the loop on important decisions. So why would he care about the show when he was given no reason to?

 

[Sci]

Besides, how hard could it have been to write nuBSG when more than half the show was already written out for you? Seriously, what creativity went into it if the show is based on a completed series that already aired & you just add elements you were going to use on a pre-existing show you walked out on?

That's an incredibly ignorant statement. Writing is not about ideas, writing is about execution. Moore took the basic premise of BSG but executed it in a completely different way -- and took the series in a completely different direction than the original BSG, which had maybe a third as many episodes as Moore's BSG did.

Ideas are nothing in writing. Anyone who's ever written anything, even a college research paper, knows that. The hard work in writing comes from the actual writing.

 

[exodus]

Besides, how hard could it have been to write nuBSG when more than half the show was already written out for you? Seriously, what creativity went into it if the show is based on a completed series that already aired & you just add elements you were going to use on a pre-existing show you walked out on?

That's an incredibly ignorant statement.

Well honestly, if that this the is the only thing you found to take issue with, then I'm ahead of the game.

 

[Sci]

Besides, how hard could it have been to write nuBSG when more than half the show was already written out for you? Seriously, what creativity went into it if the show is based on a completed series that already aired & you just add elements you were going to use on a pre-existing show you walked out on?

That's an incredibly ignorant statement.

Well honestly, if that this the is the only thing you found to take issue with

More like the only thing that I thought was worth correcting.

 

[Sci]

Sci, I agree that it was high-handed. But come on - isn't that what captains do? Give orders? It was her ship. She was the boss. Since when is a ship a democracy?

Since when does a Federation starship require dozens upon dozens of civilians to function? Since when does a military organization have a right to impress civilians into military service just because they say so?

Seriously, why should the Maquis crew members subordinate themselves to Janeway when Janeway needs them? I'm not saying the Maquis should have had the run of the place -- but by the same token, why should they be expected to give all of the concessions to Starfleet and Starfleet not give any concessions to them?

It would have made for a wonderful story to see the Starfleet and Maquis crew members develop an entirely new governing structure for Voyager -- one that's more democratic, or at least that treats the Maquis and Starfleet factions as equals rather than biased in favor of one or the other -- during their journey home.