ROMULUS IN MIND MELD '09

[ChowdaHead]

I watched star trek 09 last night on blu ray on my new 60 inch and I noticed something I hadn't before. during the mind meld between kirk and spock, and during the scene in which we first see the star that seconds later goes supernova, we pass a planet quite quickly. now, when I rewound the scene and paused on the planet, it is in fact the exact planet that is shown being obliterated. AKA Romulus. I know this because of the color and look of Romulus in the scene. feel free to rewatch scene and look for yourselves. this gives me cause to believe that maybe the writers did intend for the hobus star to be THE star of Romulus and not some star lightyears away, thus creating quite a large plot hole: no planet can be saved when its star is no longer present. thoughts?

p.s. sorry if this has been mentioned in the past.

 

[Dukhat]

The name "Hobus" isn't mentioned anywhere in the film. If the writers intended the star to be Romulus's sun, they would have made that clear.

 

[F. King Daniel]

If it was the Romulan homestar that exploded, Spock also wouldn't have had time to do what he did. Remember, the explosion occurs at the very start of the meld, and then Spock...

- Promises the Romulans that he would save their planet.

- Travels to Vulcan (although I guess he may have beamed there)

- The Jellyfish is given an extensive refit to accommodate the Red Matter.

- Spock returns to Romulus just too late.


Perhaps Hobus had a similar looking class-M planet in orbit? Plus, we know the nova "threatened to destroy the galaxy" - and Spock is not prone to hyperbole.

It's awful in terms of real-life science (see also: "cold fusion") - but so was Genesis, the Praxis explosion etc etc. All just fantasy elements, IMO.

 

[Therin of Andor]

they would have made that clear.

And you know this because...?

 

[Dukhat]

Because the script would have read "Romulus's sun" instead of "a star."

 

[The Wormhole]

this gives me cause to believe that maybe the writers did intend for the hobus star to be THE star of Romulus and not some star lightyears away, thus creating quite a large plot hole: no planet can be saved when its star is no longer present. thoughts?

Countdown was co-written by Orci. That tells me all I need to know about "writer's intent"

 

[Flake]

Regarding the supernova that threatens to destroy the galaxy. Perhaps this particular star is a new class of star currently unknown to science and when it goes nova a sub space shock wave is created that wipes everything out. We have seen sub space shockwaves before in Star Trek 6; the praxis explosion.

Sub space shockwaves travel at warp speeds.

Maybe this star is similar to the conditions at praxis but on an enormous scale. Some kind of dilithium star ?

 

[Kemaiku]

The planet that explodes does not have Romulus' unique purple and green hue, and Remus is not orbiting nearby.

There are fewer oceans, although there does appear to be settlement on the planet, the night side shows illuminated cities.

 

[R. Star]

I just want to know how a single star can go superdupernova.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The planet that explodes does not have Romulus' unique purple and green hue, and Remus is not orbiting nearby.

There are fewer oceans, although there does appear to be settlement on the planet, the night side shows illuminated cities.

Has there been a planet besides Earth which looked the same in every incarnation of Trek?

 

[Kemaiku]

The planet that explodes does not have Romulus' unique purple and green hue, and Remus is not orbiting nearby.

There are fewer oceans, although there does appear to be settlement on the planet, the night side shows illuminated cities.

Has there been a planet besides Earth which looked the same in every incarnation of Trek?

Vulcan, Risa, Rigel, etc

I just meant that even if the surface render was different for '09, the sister planet of Remus/Romii has been around since TOS, it was the biggest hint that we're not seeing Romulus.

It still means we're watching an entire race die due to the Hobus star, but I'm not convinced Spock was showing him something he couldn't have seen anyway.

The Jellyfish might be fast but I doubt he stayed around to watch then try escaping the shockwave.

 

[T'Girl]

Because the script would have read "Romulus's sun" instead of "a star."

Isn't Romulus's sun a star?

 

[M'Sharak]

I just want to know how a single star can go superdupernova.

Violently. Very, very violently.

 

[ChowdaHead]

If it was the Romulan homestar that exploded, Spock also wouldn't have had time to do what he did. Remember, the explosion occurs at the very start of the meld, and then Spock...

- Promises the Romulans that he would save their planet.

- Travels to Vulcan (although I guess he may have beamed there)

- The Jellyfish is given an extensive refit to accommodate the Red Matter.

- Spock returns to Romulus just too late.


Perhaps Hobus had a similar looking class-M planet in orbit? Plus, we know the nova "threatened to destroy the galaxy" - and Spock is not prone to hyperbole.

It's awful in terms of real-life science (see also: "cold fusion") - but so was Genesis, the Praxis explosion etc etc. All just fantasy elements, IMO.

i dont think this is necessarily correct. yes thats the order he explains things in. but at the begginning he says a star explodes which threatens the galaxy. while saying this we pass a planet and then get to the star, which immediately explodes. this planet looks EXACTLY like the one that gets destroyed. no differences. i think spock was just first explaining what happened. star explodes, threatens galaxy. then he goes on to explain he told the romulans he will save there planet. im pretty sure in the comic he tells them he will save the planet after nero sees evidence of the supernova that is going to take place. i dont think the star exploded and THEN spock said he would save the planet. i think he intended on saving it before it exploded. watch the scene again. it isnt clear i will admit. but the fact that romulus looks just like the planet in the initial scene tells me they intended in the scene for it to be romulus star. also, the comic was most like written after the script to clear up confusion. even though said comic came out before, i highly doubt it was written before the initial script.

 

[F. King Daniel]

IIRC, Abrams says in the commentary that he was tinkering with the mind meld scene right up until 2 weeks prior to the film's theatrical release. That's the reason there are a few discontinuities between Countdown and the movie (in the movie, Romulus is destroyed while Spock is en route, in the comic it happened before he had even launched)

There's also an early script at IMSDB (http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Trek.html), where Spock deliberately opens a second black hole, intentionally travelling back in time to try and save Romulus. It talks about the supernova being an "untreated cancer" that would "destroy everything" and that Nero was on a mission to prevent Spock from stopping the supernova, believing that if Romulus was allowed to die, all planets should share its fate.

Add to that, the first draft of Countdown apparently featured the destruction of Earth as well as Romulus, and it was apparently only through the intervention of Cryptic (whose Star Trek Online videogame plans would have totally ruined by mass destruction in the Alpha Quadrant) that the destruction was scaled back somewhat. More details here: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=205504


With all those changes, I'm not surprised the final version came out a little jumbled.

 

[ChowdaHead]

IIRC, Abrams says in the commentary that he was tinkering with the mind meld scene right up until 2 weeks prior to the film's theatrical release. That's the reason there are a few discontinuities between Countdown and the movie (in the movie, Romulus is destroyed while Spock is en route, in the comic it happened before he had even launched)

There's also an early script at IMSDB (http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Trek.html), where Spock deliberately opens a second black hole, intentionally travelling back in time to try and save Romulus. It talks about the supernova being an "untreated cancer" that would "destroy everything" and that Nero was on a mission to prevent Spock from stopping the supernova, believing that if Romulus was allowed to die, all planets should share its fate.

Add to that, the first draft of Countdown apparently featured the destruction of Earth as well as Romulus, and it was apparently only through the intervention of Cryptic (whose Star Trek Online videogame plans would have totally ruined by mass destruction in the Alpha Quadrant) that the destruction was scaled back somewhat. More details here: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=205504


With all those changes, I'm not surprised the final version came out a little jumbled.

trust me friend, I truly want to believe it was originally intended to be a distant star and not Romulus' sun. but I still have heard nothing in this thread to change my current mindset. I still believe this is a major clutzy move. and im a huge fan of this film. this part just stings me.

 

[ChowdaHead]

IIRC, Abrams says in the commentary that he was tinkering with the mind meld scene right up until 2 weeks prior to the film's theatrical release. That's the reason there are a few discontinuities between Countdown and the movie (in the movie, Romulus is destroyed while Spock is en route, in the comic it happened before he had even launched)

There's also an early script at IMSDB (http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Star-Trek.html), where Spock deliberately opens a second black hole, intentionally travelling back in time to try and save Romulus. It talks about the supernova being an "untreated cancer" that would "destroy everything" and that Nero was on a mission to prevent Spock from stopping the supernova, believing that if Romulus was allowed to die, all planets should share its fate.

Add to that, the first draft of Countdown apparently featured the destruction of Earth as well as Romulus, and it was apparently only through the intervention of Cryptic (whose Star Trek Online videogame plans would have totally ruined by mass destruction in the Alpha Quadrant) that the destruction was scaled back somewhat. More details here: http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=205504


With all those changes, I'm not surprised the final version came out a little jumbled.

King Daniel. I apologize. I just saw your line about the script I don't know how I read over that, or maybe because I was on a break at work while reading it as well as eating at the same time I wasn't paying close enough attention. I went and read the script online. it does say the supernova originally happened and spock witnessed the beginning of it, and then discussions were had about what to do, untreated cancer... etc. so thanks a lot for helping me clear that up. it really bothered me for a while! I honestly think this movie is so much fun and one of my favorite trek films. im not afraid to say it. the science is no worse than any other trek film. in fact, I would argue the genesis in WOK is far worse than some crazy supernova that has the ability to destroy the galaxy. thanks to everyone who put in their 2 cents.

 

[Set Harth]

If it was the Romulan homestar that exploded, Spock also wouldn't have had time to do what he did. Remember, the explosion occurs at the very start of the meld, and then Spock...

- Promises the Romulans that he would save their planet.

And there's absolutely no way he can save Romulus if it's the Romulan home star that goes supernova. If that's the case, the planet is toast. Even if he had been able to somehow know in advance that the supernova was going to happen, or was somehow able to get to the system before the planet was consumed, he'd still be unleashing a black hole on the star in the Romulan system. It's game over for Romulus.

 

[ChowdaHead]

If it was the Romulan homestar that exploded, Spock also wouldn't have had time to do what he did. Remember, the explosion occurs at the very start of the meld, and then Spock...

- Promises the Romulans that he would save their planet.

And there's absolutely no way he can save Romulus if it's the Romulan home star that goes supernova. If that's the case, the planet is toast. Even if he had been able to somehow know in advance that the supernova was going to happen, or was somehow able to get to the system before the planet was consumed, he'd still be unleashing a black hole on the star in the Romulan system. It's game over for Romulus.

absolutely. I realize this. my initial point was that I felt maybe the writers and jj just screwed up and missed the fact that this action would still destroy Romulus.

 

[F. King Daniel]

King Daniel. I apologize. I just saw your line about the script I don't know how I read over that, or maybe because I was on a break at work while reading it as well as eating at the same time I wasn't paying close enough attention. I went and read the script online. it does say the supernova originally happened and spock witnessed the beginning of it, and then discussions were had about what to do, untreated cancer... etc. so thanks a lot for helping me clear that up. it really bothered me for a while! I honestly think this movie is so much fun and one of my favorite trek films. im not afraid to say it. the science is no worse than any other trek film. in fact, I would argue the genesis in WOK is far worse than some crazy supernova that has the ability to destroy the galaxy. thanks to everyone who put in their 2 cents.

No worries. I'm glad to help!