Romulan warbirds forced quantum singularity as alternative to Starfleet warp drive (dilithium)

[fireproof78]

Minor Radiation + Cloaked Romulan Warbird caused O'Brien to timeshift.

It's possible that the technology was found to be potentially too harmful due to interactions with other technologies.

Honestly, with Starfleet's emphasis on safety and secondary backups and abandoning technology if there are any risk it would not surprise me if such concerns would limit their interest in such technology.

I think dilithium offered them a safe reliable power source...until it wasn't.

 

[Deks]

Honestly, with Starfleet's emphasis on safety and secondary backups and abandoning technology if there are any risk it would not surprise me if such concerns would limit their interest in such technology.

I think dilithium offered them a safe reliable power source...until it wasn't.

Its one thing to emphasize health and safety... its something completely different to abandon technology on a singe incident or a failure (no matter how great).
Realistically, such setbacks would not discourage further scientific development... they'd be researched to account for the problems that arise and you'd make a better version in a far safer capacity.

Take subspace beaming for example... no reason why this technology should be abandoned considering the promise it offered. At the very least, it could be used to transport inorganic compounds (materials, supplies, etc.) until the effects on organic tissue are addressed and you can use it as a baseline to see how it bypasses shields etc. to devise better protection against harmful attacks.

I don't think the writers thought things through in this regard (or just plain decided to ignore them for the sake of the drama - which is a shame and it also creates... inconsistencies).

Also, Romulan Forced QS power core is not the only option. Voyager encountered a similar technology while studying the communication Hirogen relay network spanning the DQ which used a quantum singularity as a power source... and they got clear/detailed sensor scans of it.
In the 810 years since then, I find it extremely unlikely that SF and the Federation at large wouldn't be able to not just make it work but make it completely safe... and probably surpass the technology eventually.

 

[fireproof78]

Its one thing to emphasize health and safety... its something completely different to abandon technology on a singe incident or a failure (no matter how great).
Realistically, such setbacks would not discourage further scientific development... they'd be researched to account for the problems that arise and you'd make a better version in a far safer capacity.

Yes, realistically that is often the case, though humanity is more risk adverse nowadays at times.

Regardless, this is how the Federation has been presented. Agree, disagree and everything in between but that's how they have been shown in the past.

 

[Deks]

Yes, realistically that is often the case, though humanity is more risk adverse nowadays at times.

Regardless, this is how the Federation has been presented. Agree, disagree and everything in between but that's how they have been shown in the past.

I know, but the writers could have changed that to make it more realistic.
I mean, science is not without risk... anything you do in science is fraught with risks. Travelling through space alone is a proverbial space hazzard in itself (the amount of pathogens or anomalies SF encounters as a result of exploration alone is really high, and yet, they still do it).
So, discounting scientific research projects (promising ones) on accounts of one or two accidents is absurd when contrasted to actual space exploration mishaps that occur to them on a weekly basis.

 

[fireproof78]

I know, but the writers could have changed that to make it more realistic.
I mean, science is not without risk... anything you do in science is fraught with risks. Travelling through space alone is a proverbial space hazzard in itself (the amount of pathogens or anomalies SF encounters as a result of exploration alone is really high, and yet, they still do it).
So, discounting scientific research projects (promising ones) on accounts of one or two accidents is absurd when contrasted to actual space exploration mishaps that occur to them on a weekly basis.

It's absurd, yes. It's also expected.

 

[Tosk]

Can anybody? Without gaining access to a Romulan Warbird, I don't think we can.

That's kinda the point though. Without knowing how it all works, how can you state for sure than something isn't used in it?

However, going off what we know in-canon, dilithium is SPECIFICALLY used to regulate M/AM reactions (explosions that go off when matter and antimatter annihilate each other).

But what other uses does it potentially have?

 

[Nerys Myk]

That's kinda the point though. Without knowing how it all works, how can you state for sure than something isn't used in it?

But what other uses does it potentially have?

Jewelry

 

[fireproof78]

Jewelry

Well, we've seen that before so at least that is consistent with continuity

 

[Deks]

That's kinda the point though. Without knowing how it all works, how can you state for sure than something isn't used in it?

But what other uses does it potentially have?

I cannot recall any other instances from canon mentioning anything about other Dilithium uses beyond regulating M/AM reactions.
Trading Dilithium would probably be a thing between various species and/or organizations (some may prefer to trade for it as opposed to mine their own, and others might want to mine their own but trade it for something else - they may even want to trade it just to gain a favor from specific organizations).

 

[Ronald Held]

I still think the AGS puts out too much radiation by SF standards. Romulans might be more resistant, or the Admiralty doesnt care.

 

[fireproof78]

I cannot recall any other instances from canon mentioning anything about other Dilithium uses beyond regulating M/AM reactions.

In TNG a large dilithium despite converted heat to mechanical energy so it apparently can be used as an energy modulator of some kind, and not just M/AM reactions.

 

[Xerxus]

This is not canon... but as canon doesn't really specify the mechanics of how various propulsion systems work...

The Star Trek Magazine had an article describing how the Forced Singularity Drive worked.

You can view the internet archive here.

It still apparently used deuterium and dilithium.

 

[Tosk]

I cannot recall any other instances from canon mentioning anything about other Dilithium uses beyond regulating M/AM reactions.

The lack of mention does not preclude it. Besides which, I seem to recall TOS referring to dilithium crystals being that actual power source themselves (as opposed to something that regulated power) early on, so there's another use right there.

 

[diankra]

Possibly it's an old technology that fell into disuse after the destruction of Romulus, more than 700 years ago. Possibly there is some researcher saying "Try this!" as their reports get filled in the round bin.

 

[Mytran]

The lack of mention does not preclude it. Besides which, I seem to recall TOS referring to dilithium crystals being that actual power source themselves (as opposed to something that regulated power) early on, so there's another use right there.

They were also several episodes which suggested that the crystals fulfilled the role of an energy converter, which allowed the ship to tap the energy of the matter/antimatter reactions in the nacelles for normal ship systems use (a bit like an alternator does in a airplane)

 

[Nerys Myk]

Lotta blank space in the technology.

 

[AlanC9]

Do these sort of nitpicks ever matter? Get the writers' attention about this and they'll just pop in some technobabble workaround.

 

[fireproof78]

Do these sort of nitpicks ever matter? Get the writers' attention about this and they'll just pop in some technobabble workaround.

Its all about consistency, doncha know. My made up technology cant suffer any inconsistency.

 

[Timo]

This week further reinforced the point that dilithium simply is worlds above everything else. Burnham nonchalantly mentions transwarp tunnel travel as an option that is readily and automatically available for their random trip, and just as easily dismisses it because of its poor reliability (it's literally more likely to kill you than not).

The writers don't need to shoot down every alternate means of travel one by one. It suffices to say that they are all so vastly inferior to dilithium-based warp that even bringing them up in discussion is merely a rhetoric trick, akin to arguing that perhaps instead of emailing the week's agenda or data, one might consider carrier pigeons.

(Although see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

This week further reinforced the point that dilithium simply is worlds above everything else. Burnham nonchalantly mentions transwarp tunnel travel as an option that is readily and automatically available for their random trip, and just as easily dismisses it because of its poor reliability (it's literally more likely to kill you than not).

The writers don't need to shoot down every alternate means of travel one by one. It suffices to say that they are all so vastly inferior to dilithium-based warp that even bringing them up in discussion is merely a rhetoric trick, akin to arguing that perhaps instead of emailing the week's agenda or data, one might consider carrier pigeons.

(Although see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers)

Timo Saloniemi

Other species used faster than Warp technologies without issues and ended up with much faster (and more efficient) velocities than Warp alone.
A TW conduit threatened the Enterprise-D with structural collapse in the 24th century when it first encountered it... and yet the crew modified their shields and hull to cope better with the stresses inside the conduit upon secondary attempt and ended up fine on the other side.

Furthemore, when Voyager generated its own TW conduit using the TW coil they stole from the Borg sphere, they were perfectly fine.
In fact, the Delta Flyer used the thing for a while and its structural integrity and overall systems remained intact.

You cannot possibly tell me that Discovery after all its upgrades (or heck, even Booker's ship) cannot withstand being inside TW conduit with a certainty in the range of 99.99% or even 100%. What was SF doing for the past 810 years? Apparently, nothing.

The writers are intentionally making everything look impractical and dubming things down, because if they didn't and SF didn't need to use Warp, then their whole idea of the Burn and failure to find alternate methods of propulsion and power sources falls apart (like we know it easily does).

32nd century Federation technical understanding is really disappointing. It was essentially portrayed as incompetent.
The writers are taking well established technologies which worked perfectly fine and crews were able to adapt to them, and then turns around and says they are 'impractical' (mainly because their primary story wouldn't work otherwise).