The Valdrore looks deadlier to me, much more 'purposeful' versus the ungainly bulk of the D'Deridex.
Think Bruce Lee vs a Sumo Wrestler.
Think Bruce Lee vs a Sumo Wrestler.
Romulan Valdore/Mogai Class?
- Thread starter Silversmok3
- Start date
That's how I see it too.
Looks are free....
Maybe the Norexean-class ships are more like fast destroyer/cruisers while the D'Derridex-class ships are more like the heavy battleships/troop carriers....
the D'deridex has speed issues, it had to burn out its engines to overtake a Galaxy class.
the Valdore is obviously faster as that was sent to take out the Scimitar.
But the Scimitar is clearly a beast in its league of its own. It would have easily destroyed the E-E if Shinzon wasn't intent on taking Picard alive.
the Valdore is obviously faster as that was sent to take out the Scimitar.
But the Scimitar is clearly a beast in its league of its own. It would have easily destroyed the E-E if Shinzon wasn't intent on taking Picard alive.
Here is a link to the Valdore Dimensions
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/nemesiscomparison.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/nemesiscomparison.jpg/
I had previously thought that the Valdore/Norexan/Mogai/Strider/Aragorn was a hybrid design built early on in the Romulan's more "modern" shipbuilding program, influenced by the Romulan detente with the Klingon Empire, which brought them ships that didn't run on crapoline, and gave cloaking tech to the Klinkers. Fanon, yes, I know.
Basically the Romulan equivalent of the Excelsior. (And really, with the Klinks and other races making constant use of spaceframes that us fans would gawk at as being "ancient" in Starfleet service, it wouldn't be too much out of place).
Of course, with Enterprise showing awesomium-powered Rommie ships, and cloaking Klinkers, that kind of sunk the SS Herkimer Jitty. Ah well.
Yeah, ENT does give a consistent impression of Klingons having these shoulder-winged, long-necked birdships from the very start, while Romulans have ships more like sea creatures and Vulcans have their own distinct style that doesn't seem to be reflected in later Romulan thinking at all.
It's a bit funny that the Romulans are supposed to be these bird fetishists, with their national symbol featuring a big bird of prey, and with their armies "marching under the raptor's wings" - but the Klingons are the ones to actually do all the birdships (in shape and name both) without ever otherwise mentioning an interest in avians.
But most spacegoing cultures might well be expected to use avian terminology and thinking, with only a select few going for seaborne inspirations for their spatial technology. Klingons, Romulans and Orions alike could be designing birdships and designating them with appropriate terminology - it just so happens that Klingons are the only ones to do that consistently, while for the Romulans it's more an on-and-off thing.
Timo Saloniemi
It's a bit funny that the Romulans are supposed to be these bird fetishists, with their national symbol featuring a big bird of prey, and with their armies "marching under the raptor's wings" - but the Klingons are the ones to actually do all the birdships (in shape and name both) without ever otherwise mentioning an interest in avians.
But most spacegoing cultures might well be expected to use avian terminology and thinking, with only a select few going for seaborne inspirations for their spatial technology. Klingons, Romulans and Orions alike could be designing birdships and designating them with appropriate terminology - it just so happens that Klingons are the only ones to do that consistently, while for the Romulans it's more an on-and-off thing.
Timo Saloniemi
The Valdore looks cool but I think most people judge it on its performance against the Scimitar and since it wasn't a hero ship both Valdore ships got badly beaten. The shields didn't seem to hold up well the Scimitar fire and curiously both Valdores didn't seem to fire that much, so that raises questions about their firepower.
To be sure, the E-E fired a lot because she fired blindly, trying to find a target for the trio of ships. The Romulans didn't appear to fire ranging shots, they concentrated on lethal ones. And perhaps they felt that only their forward-pointing main weapons could penetrate the shields of the especially durable Scimitar, so they only fired when the target was dead ahead...
In a fight against the E-E, they might have fared significantly better.
Timo Saloniemi
In a fight against the E-E, they might have fared significantly better.
Timo Saloniemi
Don't know if it's a computer problem or if my eyes aren't quite focusing as the caffeine hasn't caught up to them yet, but would you mind giving us the dimensions of the ships as they are presented in the images? Thanks much!
^
Looks like about 600 x 930 metres...
And the Valdore looks more like a Klingon BoP to me more so then a Romulan Warbird. I can certainly see the Romulans ripping off Klingon design.
I'd never rule out the Warbird as a powerhouse vessel. The E-D was a super powerful ship and the Warbird was stated on screen to be comparable to the E-D. Throw in the cloaking BS and we've got superiority- though like said above, with the exception of speed.
The Valdore also reminds me more of a strike vessel. Maybe faster then a Warbird- better state of the art cloaking coupled with a leaner sensor profile when not cloaked. And also maybe atmospheric capabilities including landing. But not as powerful as a Warbird. They fight in numbers though, making them more formatible as a battle group and possibly less expensive to build/ maintain.
Looks like about 600 x 930 metres...
And the Valdore looks more like a Klingon BoP to me more so then a Romulan Warbird. I can certainly see the Romulans ripping off Klingon design.
I'd never rule out the Warbird as a powerhouse vessel. The E-D was a super powerful ship and the Warbird was stated on screen to be comparable to the E-D. Throw in the cloaking BS and we've got superiority- though like said above, with the exception of speed.
The Valdore also reminds me more of a strike vessel. Maybe faster then a Warbird- better state of the art cloaking coupled with a leaner sensor profile when not cloaked. And also maybe atmospheric capabilities including landing. But not as powerful as a Warbird. They fight in numbers though, making them more formatible as a battle group and possibly less expensive to build/ maintain.
Sad thing is, in ST3 the Bird of Prey was originally supposed to be a Romulan design (in one of the early drafts of the script, IIRC). Later revisions made the baddies Klingons but kept the BOP nomenclature. That, coupled with the already-canonical "tech exchange" between the two empires as mentioned in TOS, muddied the waters permanently. 
The Klingons were never supposed to dabble in avian designs from the beginning.
The Klingons were never supposed to dabble in avian designs from the beginning....Although to the credit of the writers, now they retroactively do exactly that: Klingon ships in ENT are not merely just as explicitly avian in design as ever (head, neck, wings), they also carry avian names like Raptor, Warbird and Bird of Prey.
Evidence on a "tech exchange" or an "alliance" is far from canonical, though. All we know is that the Romulans once operated Klingon ships - possibly war prizes...
Personally, I'd like to think that nearly everybody builds birdlike ships for aesthetic-pragmatic reasons - and that Vulcans have a particularly bad avian fixation, leading them to designate all ships (their own, Romulan, and Klingon) by avian terms, which they then also teach to their human proteges. (Mayweather: "I found these schematics in the Vulcan database. It's a Raptor class scout vessel.")
Timo Saloniemi
Evidence on a "tech exchange" or an "alliance" is far from canonical, though. All we know is that the Romulans once operated Klingon ships - possibly war prizes...
Personally, I'd like to think that nearly everybody builds birdlike ships for aesthetic-pragmatic reasons - and that Vulcans have a particularly bad avian fixation, leading them to designate all ships (their own, Romulan, and Klingon) by avian terms, which they then also teach to their human proteges. (Mayweather: "I found these schematics in the Vulcan database. It's a Raptor class scout vessel.")
Timo Saloniemi
It occurs to me we've never seen a purely Romulan design. The original cruiser was originally described in the script as a UFP saucer with warp nacelles attached to the sides. The look was altered when Wah Chang built the model and those lines were dropped, but the ship retains that basic shape. In much the same way, all subsequent Romulan craft essentially follow the same plan of the D7--bulbous pod forward, warp engines at the tips of a vaguely wing-shaped engineering hull.
Sad thing is, in ST3 the Bird of Prey was originally supposed to be a Romulan design (in one of the early drafts of the script, IIRC). Later revisions made the baddies Klingons but kept the BOP nomenclature. That, coupled with the already-canonical "tech exchange" between the two empires as mentioned in TOS, muddied the waters permanently.
* shrugs * That's one reason I've always liked the FASA take, that there was a brief but actual alliance between the two powers (more concrete than what TOS hinted at), that the BOP design originated with the Romulans who gave hulls to their Klingon allies, and that the Klingons created scaled up versions which they weren't supposed to make (and which the Romulans promptly copied in retaliation). Isn't continuity fun?
We do see a couple of "supporting vessels" along the course of the various series, but they in turn are all reuses or modifications of random vessels originally designed for completely different adversaries. With the exception of the "The Defector" scoutship, which isn't quite the classic head-neck-wings ship despite being definitely avian.
Timo Saloniemi
