Romulan Cloak on Defiant

[dispatcher812]

If i remember correctly, the first time the cloak was mentioned and used the Defiant was to have a Romulan officer on board at all times. This fell by the wayside quickly. Can anyone explain why? was it just a writing thing or was something actually agreeded upon br Starfleet and the Romulan Empire.

 

[Unicron]

Were the cloaking restrictions mentioned in "The Search"? I.E. that the cloak was only supposed to be used in the Gamma Quadrant, and all intelligence on the Dominion was to be shared? If not, then perhaps that was proposed an alternative after that ep instead of having a Romulan officer always being present.

 

[Timo]

...Of course, we could also argue that the deal indeed was to only operate the ship under cloak in Gamma and always have a Romulan supervisor when the cloak was to be used. But most of the cases where the Defiant used the cloak would have been deliberate treaty violations, and you don't take aboard an observer to verify your treaty violation!

Just think of it - when after "The Search" did the Defiant actually perform a preplanned cloaking sortie into Gamma? Starfleet would no doubt have argued that the ship would not use the cloak during the missions of "Meridian" or "Starship Down" or "Destiny"; it would not necessarily have been a realistic prospect, of course, but it would have been theoretically possible not to cloak during those missions, and such an argument would have kept the Romulan spy off the Starfleet backs.

In "The Die is Cast", the ship's mission beyond the wormhole was an emergency response to developments in which the Romulans were already violating their commitments.

"To the Death" was another emergency sortie that might have been argued not to require cloaking. The argument would definitely have worked for "Broken Link" where an open Dominion escort was expected!

And after that, things would change big time anyway, with the Romulan non-aggression pact with the Dominion and all sorts of other diplomatic upheavals. That is, unless the Romulan duplicity in "Visionary" already negated the treaty and freed Starfleet from the obligation to have an observer aboard.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Foxy]

Wasnt the cloak a deal with the Tal Shiar, so they could plan the attack with the Obsidian Order.

I guess after that the cloak was the least of their worries

 

[Timo]

The deal wasn't explicated as being with the Tal'Shiar, no.

It's quite probable that this intelligence organization was indeed the party that would have received the Fed-gathered intel, and the party that originally promoted the deal. But it's also possible that the Romulans have a separate military intelligence organization that would be the recipient, and Tal'Shiar is just the secret police that doesn't do anything so mundane. They probably concentrate on torture, coercion and monitoring of their own, as well as of external enemies of the state, plus the occasional harebrained military-political scheme. A bit like Gestapo vs. Abwehr in the Nazi Germany.

However, the bumbling of the Tal'Shiar would be certain to hurt the reputation of the regular Romulan military intelligence, too, and might well negate the original treaty. And as said, "Visionary" may have been the breaking point already. That's the last time that we really hear of the agreement, at any rate.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Photon]

I 'member Bashir telling Sisko in WotW that he was breaking the agreement w/the Star Empire by cloaking to rescue Sisko's girlfriend's frieghter from a BoP.
Sisko said something like, There are x Klingon ships between us and the frieghter and I'd like to make it back in one piece" I won't tell if you won't"

 

[DS9forever]

The writers originally planned to have the cloak only in The Search. It wasn't until Defiant IIRC that they brought it back. For instance, I don't think its mentioned in Second Skin, when they took the Defiant into Cardassian space. Althought they might have wanted to abide by the agreement there.

 

[Unicron]

That would been interesting, though of course the lack of a cloak would have made the Defiant less unique.

 

[Mr. Fergy]

That would been interesting, though of course the lack of a cloak would have made the Defiant less unique.

Agreed. There is also little need of a Romulian officer "safeguarding" the cloak. I never saw the need either.

 

[Gary Mitchell]

I 'member Bashir telling Sisko in WotW that he was breaking the agreement w/the Star Empire by cloaking to rescue Sisko's girlfriend's frieghter from a BoP.
Sisko said something like, There are x Klingon ships between us and the frieghter and I'd like to make it back in one piece" I won't tell if you won't"

No, the cloaking device was used iirc to evacuate Gul Dukat and the Detapa Council during the Klingon invasion of Cardassia in WotW.

 

[LeadHead]

The agreement was specified in "Defiant" that it was to be used only in the Gamma Quadrant.

Eventually the restrictions must have been eased. The Defiant used the cloak in the Alpha Quadrant several times. "Trials and Tribble-ations" The Defiant was using it on ther return trip from Cardassia Prime to avoid the Klingons. (Then of course once back in time to hide from the Enterprise) They used the cloak in "For the Cause" to spy on Kassidy Yates as she made her delivery to the Maquis, then again when they hung her out to dry. I think there were more but I don't remember them off hand.

 

[scorpius1701]

This is one of the reasons i would have preferred a Romulan character over Worf in Season 4. The groundwork was already laid and it would have added more conflict.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Apparently the Romulan Character from the search was going to be a regular but they dropped the notion.

 

[Anthony Sabre]

Didn't she ultimately die in battle?

Speaking of the Tal'Shiar, that organization got seriously punked on DS9. First their co-op with the Obsidian Order goes awry due to changeling infiltration. Next Section 31 flips the head of the Tal'Shiar. At this point there was only one serious intelligence agency left in the Alpha quadrant, Section 31. Off topic but had to get that off my chest.

 

[Timo]

Well, it was fun to learn in "Visionary" that the Klingon Imperial Intelligence actually possesses some of its titular quality. And it's sort of amusing that they use the bragging drunkard image of Klingon warriors for cover. The most efficient secret agency is the one that nobody takes seriously...

Yeah, it might be a good theory that the Romulan chaperon actually died defending the Defiant, which is why her death was included as part of the simulation played at our Federation heroes. Except for a minor detail: she is alive and well in the final scenes of "The Search Pt. II", waking up alongside our main characters!

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Deks]

What I never really understood is why the Feds never used a Klingon cloak in the first place?
It's just as good as the Romulans counterpart.
At the very least neither the Klingons or the Romulans were able to detect each other throughout TNG.

 

[PhoenixIreland]

According to the Treaty of Algeron (some of this is non cannon from Serpents Among the Ruins) it was the Romulans who insisted the Fed not develop cloaking technology, the Klingons would gladly have helped but the Romulans were the ones that get easily pissed off about such things.

 

[Timo]

...So yes, the Feds could have obtained a Klingon cloak, but they would still have needed to go to the Romulans to ask for a permission to use it (or else the Romulans would do the "or else" thing that they had threatened to do originally, the one that had made the Feds sign that non-cloaking treaty).

Simpler, I guess, to go to a single source in such circumstances. The Romulans for their part might have preferred for the Feds to have used a top-notch Klingon cloak, because then their onboard observer could have spied on Klingon technology...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[PhoenixIreland]

Some wonderd if they made a new agreement after and ammeneded the treaty to make the Defiant an exception.

I can't remember if the second Defiant had a cloak? did it?

In any case Im 99% sure I read an intervew with Bermen saying that the treaty was an easy concession for the federation as they never liked the idea of "sneaking around" using cloaks anyway.

 

[Snaploud]

It seems ridiculous that the Federation would agree to such a major concession as to never use cloaking technology. Cloaking technology is a major asset in battle, and, in non-war settings, cloaks are helpful in maintaining the prime directive. Out of curiosity, what's the difference between that "duck blind" in TNG (using holograms) and a cloak? Or do they only care if cloaks are attached to starships?

Also, how did the Federation ever expect to counter cloaking technologies without fully developing such technologies themselves? Are they really supposed to depend upon plot contrivances like the Romulans handing over important intellegence regarding "flaws" in cloaking technology?