Rogue One questions
- Thread starter Mr. Laser Beam
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Okay, new one:
Exactly when is the U-wing fighter supposed to fly with wings stretched out, as opposed to pointed straight ahead?
In the film, when the U-wing is on approach to the rebel base at Yavin, it spreads its wings when it lands. It also takes off that way, but points them ahead right before it goes into hyperspace.
But after that, when the U-wing lands on Jedha, its wings are always pointed ahead, even during landing. In fact it never spreads its wings again throughout the entire rest of the film.
So what's the deal here? When is it supposed to do one thing vs the other?
Exactly when is the U-wing fighter supposed to fly with wings stretched out, as opposed to pointed straight ahead?
In the film, when the U-wing is on approach to the rebel base at Yavin, it spreads its wings when it lands. It also takes off that way, but points them ahead right before it goes into hyperspace.
But after that, when the U-wing lands on Jedha, its wings are always pointed ahead, even during landing. In fact it never spreads its wings again throughout the entire rest of the film.
So what's the deal here? When is it supposed to do one thing vs the other?
Wookieepedia says the following at the page for this ship:
It cites the book Star Wars: Rogue One: The Ultimate Visual Guide as the source for that tidbit.Wookiepedia said:
In actual behind-the-scenes practice, I think they go with what will look better in the scene in question.
Kor
...The "other" U-Wing down at Scarif also spreads its wings for a pull-up maneuver at around 1:42:40.
It then folds them forward again for a landing and deplyment of troops at 1:44:45. Makes sense to reduce the footprint on the landing zone, I guess, even though disembarking or embarking does not absolutely require one wing position over another.
No real rhyme and reason there. But it could be all about "energy states", be it as regards aerodynamics, repulsorlifts, or the dissipation of heat from energetic machinery of other sorts. When a VG aircraft today flaps its wings, it's not always intuitive why a spreading or a feathering is taking place at a given moment...
Timo Saloniemi
It then folds them forward again for a landing and deplyment of troops at 1:44:45. Makes sense to reduce the footprint on the landing zone, I guess, even though disembarking or embarking does not absolutely require one wing position over another.
No real rhyme and reason there. But it could be all about "energy states", be it as regards aerodynamics, repulsorlifts, or the dissipation of heat from energetic machinery of other sorts. When a VG aircraft today flaps its wings, it's not always intuitive why a spreading or a feathering is taking place at a given moment...
Timo Saloniemi
Not an answer to the question but just a quick word to say they did a great job introducing a new starfighter (ok not technically a starfighter) into the OT time period and making it look and feel like it belongs. Big fan of the U-wing. The behind the scenes feature on it on the RO bluray is really interesting, I could listen to Doug Chiang talk about SW design all day.
The U Wing and Blue Squadron were the best things about Rogue One.
...And the 'stache on the General. And the sideburns on the Imps. Period dramas generally fail on the hair dept specifically, but here they had the guts to go full 1970s where it mattered.
Some of the tactical stuff is counterintuitive. A pintle mount on the U-Wing works like a baseball bat on the kneecaps of the walkers, when cannon the thickness of one's leg were helpless against them at Hoth? A Star Destroyer superstructure is tissue paper to another Star Destroyer, which also cuts through the planetary shield generator ring, but nobody tried ramming the ring previously? (Are the wedge parts of SDs perhaps especially armored?)
Yet much of it is classic and recognizable. But any idea on how Vader followed Leia to Tatooine through hyperspace, if he wasn't tracking his daughter through a Force connection that should not have been there yet? Is there a classic trick for that, despite Solo's later protestations?
Timo Saloniemi
Some of the tactical stuff is counterintuitive. A pintle mount on the U-Wing works like a baseball bat on the kneecaps of the walkers, when cannon the thickness of one's leg were helpless against them at Hoth? A Star Destroyer superstructure is tissue paper to another Star Destroyer, which also cuts through the planetary shield generator ring, but nobody tried ramming the ring previously? (Are the wedge parts of SDs perhaps especially armored?)
Yet much of it is classic and recognizable. But any idea on how Vader followed Leia to Tatooine through hyperspace, if he wasn't tracking his daughter through a Force connection that should not have been there yet? Is there a classic trick for that, despite Solo's later protestations?
Timo Saloniemi
The Tantive IV wasn't being evasive, they just jumped directly towards their next destination, which was in a pretty empty part of the galaxy. You don't need fancy hyperspace tracking for that, just the ability to draw a straight line from the direction they jumped off in. Presumably, there were multiple plausible destinations when the fleet in TLJ jumped away, so they were surprised that the First Order immediately came out right on top of them (especially since they themselves stopped well short of their true destination).
Hmm. I have major trouble with Tantive IV not being evasive to the max, given the situation!
But her arriving on Tatooine poses assorted other problems that Rogue One doesn't exactly help solve, even if it doesn't make all of them worse. In terms of ANH, all we see is the Princess going to a place where the General hides, everything else being a coincidence. In terms of wider SW, Vader must be thinking "My home planet, WTF?!?"; no fewer than three people strong in the Force are now buzzing around him; and a guy named Skywalker is registered as living down there, even if in a family of a different name. It's not just a case of him putting 1+1 together, but 1+1+1+1+1...
Without Rogue One, we could think that the presence of Leia aboard comes as a surprise to Vader, and that there was no chase as such, only an intercept based on a tip-off. The intercept then happening close to Tatooine could be chalked off as a coincidence, and Vader wouldn't think of the place as a destination.
(It can still be that, of course. Perhaps it has been weeks since the Battle of Scarif, so that there has been time for the news to spread - but Vader has cast a wide net that prevents Leia from reaching Yavin, and now the net has twitched and drawn Vader to this random intercept location.)
It would be worse still if tracking of ships through hyperspace were trivial. Or if it were trivial for Vader thanks to a Force trick of some sort. Both would conflict with the tracking of the Falcon to Yavin in major plot terms!
Timo Saloniemi
But her arriving on Tatooine poses assorted other problems that Rogue One doesn't exactly help solve, even if it doesn't make all of them worse. In terms of ANH, all we see is the Princess going to a place where the General hides, everything else being a coincidence. In terms of wider SW, Vader must be thinking "My home planet, WTF?!?"; no fewer than three people strong in the Force are now buzzing around him; and a guy named Skywalker is registered as living down there, even if in a family of a different name. It's not just a case of him putting 1+1 together, but 1+1+1+1+1...
Without Rogue One, we could think that the presence of Leia aboard comes as a surprise to Vader, and that there was no chase as such, only an intercept based on a tip-off. The intercept then happening close to Tatooine could be chalked off as a coincidence, and Vader wouldn't think of the place as a destination.
(It can still be that, of course. Perhaps it has been weeks since the Battle of Scarif, so that there has been time for the news to spread - but Vader has cast a wide net that prevents Leia from reaching Yavin, and now the net has twitched and drawn Vader to this random intercept location.)
It would be worse still if tracking of ships through hyperspace were trivial. Or if it were trivial for Vader thanks to a Force trick of some sort. Both would conflict with the tracking of the Falcon to Yavin in major plot terms!
Timo Saloniemi
My copy of "A Certain Point of View" is all the way over on the other side of the room, but from what I recall, the first short story, from Rogue One writer Gary Whitta, went into the fact that the reason the Tantive IV was carried to the battle inside the Profundity was that it was being repaired, and it launched in less-than-ready condition, so they weren't sure the ship would make it to Kenobi if they tried to take a less direct route, and Antilles planned to scuttle the ship once they landed and find other transport to get back to Alderaan. Indeed, the hyperdrive failed just before they reached Tatooine, so they had to travel further than they'd hoped in normal space out in the open, where they were a sitting duck for Vader.
Is there any evidence the residents of Tatooine are registered with anyone? Plus it's a Hutt controlled planet, not part of the Empire.
The Empire technically has a small presence on Tatooine, just not enough for it to make a huge difference. Otherwise, Wuher, the bartender, would not have directed the troops Obi-wan's direction.
But, to your larger point, it is doubtful that the Empire has detailed records of all planets, or that Vader would be aware of all records of a planet, especially one connected to his old life.
Bad Batch tries real hard to show that the Republic transforming into the Empire entails establishing a true stranglehold: all ships registered, all people registered, all money confiscated and controlled.
And Vader obsesses about his old life. Obi-Wan, for one.
But we also learn from various sources that the Empire is a failure in terms of organization, and that lawlessness thrives without actually benefiting the Empire (save, of course, the Boss Sith who revels in misery). And Vader has had little success in hunting down Obi-Wan, or his own kids. It's still a matter of just doing the math, but perhaps those in the Empire have learned that 1+1 seldom adds up to anything much, or at least that others will tell you the correct answer and you really shouldn't bother, much less argue.
Timo Saloniemi
And Vader obsesses about his old life. Obi-Wan, for one.
But we also learn from various sources that the Empire is a failure in terms of organization, and that lawlessness thrives without actually benefiting the Empire (save, of course, the Boss Sith who revels in misery). And Vader has had little success in hunting down Obi-Wan, or his own kids. It's still a matter of just doing the math, but perhaps those in the Empire have learned that 1+1 seldom adds up to anything much, or at least that others will tell you the correct answer and you really shouldn't bother, much less argue.
Timo Saloniemi
Dude doesn't know he has kids.
...Which is where it would come in handy if Imperial Census records told him Tatooine was still swamped in Skywalkers.
I mean, breathing in the face of one Leia Organa aboard a random corvette might not yet trigger anything in the man yet, even if there was a slight tickling of Force there. But ANH need not have been the first time Vader would have been able to connect the name Skywalker, the address Tatooine and the presence of Force into an inescapable conclusion.
That it nevertheless apparently was tells us something about the man, and possibly of the Imperial Census Bureau as well. If browsing for Skywalkers necessarily involves going to Scarif and operating a waldo so that one can plug the right cartridge into the reader...
Timo Saloniemi
I mean, breathing in the face of one Leia Organa aboard a random corvette might not yet trigger anything in the man yet, even if there was a slight tickling of Force there. But ANH need not have been the first time Vader would have been able to connect the name Skywalker, the address Tatooine and the presence of Force into an inescapable conclusion.
That it nevertheless apparently was tells us something about the man, and possibly of the Imperial Census Bureau as well. If browsing for Skywalkers necessarily involves going to Scarif and operating a waldo so that one can plug the right cartridge into the reader...
Timo Saloniemi
One is swamped, eh?
Again, Vader would need to know to be looking. He had no reason to believe that his child lived after Padme's death.
It's just a case of projecting the real world into Star Wars. In our world, it would be an utter triviality to spot Luke Skywalker from the records if a ruthless empire were doing the searching, probably by using relentless 'bots rather than motivation-dependent people for the purpose. It thus would happen even if there weren't much enthusiasm for it. But in SW, there are obstacles:
1) The Empire may be ruthless, but it isn't as ruthless as, say, China. Smoking out dissidents relies on highly conventional means, and obvious safe havens for fugitives (such as Hutt territory) are in fact safe.
2) The technology may be advanced, but it isn't as advanced as, say, ours. Searching of records may indeed be a chore.
3) Vader may be a devious bastard, but he isn't as devious as, say, me. If starting anew as a Sith Apprentice, I sure would be thorough in my search for people from my past life, even if I had no reason to believe in offspring specifically. Vader wasn't much of a cosmopolite in his early years, and Tatooine would be easily covered if he set his mind to it.
Timo Saloniemi
1) The Empire may be ruthless, but it isn't as ruthless as, say, China. Smoking out dissidents relies on highly conventional means, and obvious safe havens for fugitives (such as Hutt territory) are in fact safe.
2) The technology may be advanced, but it isn't as advanced as, say, ours. Searching of records may indeed be a chore.
3) Vader may be a devious bastard, but he isn't as devious as, say, me. If starting anew as a Sith Apprentice, I sure would be thorough in my search for people from my past life, even if I had no reason to believe in offspring specifically. Vader wasn't much of a cosmopolite in his early years, and Tatooine would be easily covered if he set his mind to it.
Timo Saloniemi
I think people are underestimating just how much of a backwater Tatooine really is. It's relationship to the wider galaxy is essentially as a run-down, backroads, seedy, and manky as fuck, service station (that's a truck stop for the yanks in the room) used mostly by smugglers, and where a semi-notorious gangster has set up shop.
If it has any long term Imperial presence at all it's just a small garrison (probably a punishment posting where what passes for the senior officers and head bureaucrats are so corrupt they may as well be considered more Jabba's employees than Palpatine's) who's one and only job is to enforce Imperial levies on the traffic coming and going...which they're not very good at because of all the aforementioned smuggling.
Luke lives on a moisture farm so far out there, the nearest thing to civilization is the Star Wars version of a petrol station, and the "big city" to him is Anchorhead, presumably a one-eopi town.
It's unlikely the Empire even went to the trouble of doing a census of any of this kind of backwaters worlds since it's not worth the effort, and the only people there the Empire cares about even a little is the transient population, not the actual residents; surveying the moisture farmers would be about as useful as surveying the Jawas and Tuskens. The primary function of chain codes after all is to restrict and monitor travel between planets; Luke never even set foot in a spaceport before arriving in Mos Eisley.
There's really no reason why Luke would ever have cropped up in any search, even if Vader was actively looking for another Skywalker. And why would he? What reason would he have to presume that even if his child *somehow* survived that he'd have his name and not Padme's? Or a totally fake name? Why would he want to sift though all the presumably thousands of other people with some variant spelling of that name in the galaxy? The only people he'd ever likely to come across with ANY connection to him would be decedents of any siblings or cousins his mother may have had, and it's safe to say he has ZERO interest in poking that particular boil.
So to surmise; Luke is a nobody farm boy living of a scrub bit of nowhere, out past a piddly little power station, outside of a nothing country town, on the far side of the jundland wastes from a nothing interstellar pit-stop of a space port, in a remote part of the outer rim of the galaxy. He was probably never even entered into any kind of official database. Even if Owen's clearly deliberate delay tactics eventually gave out and Luke finally got to transmit his academy application it would most likely to have been as "Luke Lars" than his actual name; Because lets not forget that in the movies we never hear his surname until AFTER he's been told about his father. For all we know for his whole life he'd been going by his Aunt & Uncle's surname. Hell, the very moment he said "Luke Skywalker" aloud in Leia's cell may have been the very moment he decided to adopt his father's name and birthright.
And of course the final element to this: it's a HUGE galaxy and there are likely *thousands* of worlds just like Tatooine that nobody cares about. The only reason *we* care is because it was in that movie with the laser swords and the space bear person.
If it has any long term Imperial presence at all it's just a small garrison (probably a punishment posting where what passes for the senior officers and head bureaucrats are so corrupt they may as well be considered more Jabba's employees than Palpatine's) who's one and only job is to enforce Imperial levies on the traffic coming and going...which they're not very good at because of all the aforementioned smuggling.
Luke lives on a moisture farm so far out there, the nearest thing to civilization is the Star Wars version of a petrol station, and the "big city" to him is Anchorhead, presumably a one-eopi town.
It's unlikely the Empire even went to the trouble of doing a census of any of this kind of backwaters worlds since it's not worth the effort, and the only people there the Empire cares about even a little is the transient population, not the actual residents; surveying the moisture farmers would be about as useful as surveying the Jawas and Tuskens. The primary function of chain codes after all is to restrict and monitor travel between planets; Luke never even set foot in a spaceport before arriving in Mos Eisley.
There's really no reason why Luke would ever have cropped up in any search, even if Vader was actively looking for another Skywalker. And why would he? What reason would he have to presume that even if his child *somehow* survived that he'd have his name and not Padme's? Or a totally fake name? Why would he want to sift though all the presumably thousands of other people with some variant spelling of that name in the galaxy? The only people he'd ever likely to come across with ANY connection to him would be decedents of any siblings or cousins his mother may have had, and it's safe to say he has ZERO interest in poking that particular boil.
So to surmise; Luke is a nobody farm boy living of a scrub bit of nowhere, out past a piddly little power station, outside of a nothing country town, on the far side of the jundland wastes from a nothing interstellar pit-stop of a space port, in a remote part of the outer rim of the galaxy. He was probably never even entered into any kind of official database. Even if Owen's clearly deliberate delay tactics eventually gave out and Luke finally got to transmit his academy application it would most likely to have been as "Luke Lars" than his actual name; Because lets not forget that in the movies we never hear his surname until AFTER he's been told about his father. For all we know for his whole life he'd been going by his Aunt & Uncle's surname. Hell, the very moment he said "Luke Skywalker" aloud in Leia's cell may have been the very moment he decided to adopt his father's name and birthright.
And of course the final element to this: it's a HUGE galaxy and there are likely *thousands* of worlds just like Tatooine that nobody cares about. The only reason *we* care is because it was in that movie with the laser swords and the space bear person.
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