Spoilers Rogue One Imperial villians

[Ithekro]

I am not sure if the First Order ever reunited with part of the Empire that surrendered, or if the New Republic holds the First Order to be part of the Old Empire that signed the treaty. Leia obviously views them as a threat, but the New Republic does not take them seriously, even with their new Star Destroyers, stormtroopers, and the like. Maybe they are considered a backwater threat and not considered worth the effort verses the size of the galaxy. Or the First Order has been very good as keeping themselves hidden from an enemy that really isn't looking for them after nearly 30 years.

Any warnings have been on deaf ears in the Senate. The first real threat the First Order provides the New Republic is Starkiller's opening shots. By then it is far too late.

 

[fireproof78]

Yeah, my confusion stems from how that applies to the First Order, since they're supposedly what became of the faction that left prior to this and as such, didn't sign on. I don't think I've ever seen it stated explicitly when or even if those two factions linked back up and were still expected to adhere to the treaty.

I think I need to relisten to Rebel Force Radio's commentary with Sam. I seem to recall him explaining it pretty well. It's still confusing in the film, but his view, at least to me, made more sense.

 

[Reverend]

Maybe what happened was that those hold-out worlds actually joined the Republic and *that's* the centrist faction that split away decades later? That seems the neatest way to account for all these pieces on the board.

The old EU (mostly thanks to the RPGs) seems to have got us stuck in the mindset that even after RotJ the Empire is some intrinsic thing, that the loyalist planets are in some sense irredeemable "bad guys". It's worth remembering that all of the Imperial worlds were Republic worlds just a few generations ago and for over a thousand years before that for most. It's not too hard to believe the internal politics in those worlds shifted back towards a democratic mindset with the defeat of the Emperor and the disappearance of the fleet. For in what sense are they an Empire with no Emperor, no fleet to project power and no subject worlds to which to project said power?

 

[publiusr]

I saw the First Order as the Empire's Section 31. Where the Red Guard and other really driven folks like Hux go.

Thrawn, and the first Inquisitor we saw are more worldly, and may think some of the overzealous folk a bit tedious. Even the cackling emperor knows that you need well balanced people to get jobs done.

It took the collapse of the Empire proper for them to really grow, and take over Imperial remnant forces.

 

[Venardhi]

Maybe what happened was that those hold-out worlds actually joined the Republic and *that's* the centrist faction that split away decades later? That seems the neatest way to account for all these pieces on the board.

The old EU (mostly thanks to the RPGs) seems to have got us stuck in the mindset that even after RotJ the Empire is some intrinsic thing, that the loyalist planets are in some sense irredeemable "bad guys". It's worth remembering that all of the Imperial worlds were Republic worlds just a few generations ago and for over a thousand years before that for most. It's not too hard to believe the internal politics in those worlds shifted back towards a democratic mindset with the defeat of the Emperor and the disappearance of the fleet. For in what sense are they an Empire with no Emperor, no fleet to project power and no subject worlds to which to project said power?

That depends on how firm a grasp the remaining Imperial political and military structure kept on those worlds. A properly applied propaganda campaign is a powerful thing and It is much easier for authoritarian rule to rise up, freely elected, out of democracy than the opposite.

 

[Reverend]

That depends on how firm a grasp the remaining Imperial political and military structure kept on those worlds. A properly applied propaganda campaign is a powerful thing and It is much easier for authoritarian rule to rise up, freely elected, out of democracy than the opposite.

I don't think it has as much to do with surviving bureaucratic structures as it dose the prevailing local views and attitudes. Most especially those worlds that prospered under the Empire are naturally going to be slanting towards the opinion that authoritarian rule worked great for them, and this new democracy is a reversion to the endless bickering and inaction of the old Republic.
That attitude probably also comes with a certain degree of ignorance of what their own prosperity cost the less fortunate worlds of the old Empire, but that's hardly without precedent.

 

[Ithekro]

Or they could be from civilizations that have always survived via authoritarian rule. Some cultures just do not adapt to democracy, or they find it sloppy verse having a lifetime ruler.