Spoilers Rogue One Imperial villians

[Ithekro]

Is some respects the First Order operates more like the Grand Army of the Republic during the Clone Wars, but without the Jedi ad their influence to make sure the clones are acting more humane and that the officers aren't abusing their power. The Jedi (mostly) cared about their troops. The Empire did not. The First Order seems to be in the middle of this, caring about its troops to a point, but not in a humane way.

With the new Rogue One trailer, we see that Vader will definitely be a factor in the film, though to what extent is unclear.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Is some respects the First Order operates more like the Grand Army of the Republic during the Clone Wars, but without the Jedi ad their influence to make sure the clones are acting more humane and that the officers aren't abusing their power. The Jedi (mostly) cared about their troops. The Empire did not. The First Order seems to be in the middle of this, caring about its troops to a point, but not in a humane way.

I actually got the opposite impression - that the FIrst Order cares even less about its personnel than the Empire ever did.

Admittedly, we didn't get a lot of chances to see what it was like for normal rank and file crew in the Empire (except when Vader force choked somebody) but somehow I suspect it was better for them back then, than under the First Order now.

The Order strikes me as something like a schoolyard bully puffing out his chest to try and look tough. The kind of kid who burns animals and insects with a magnifying glass just for shits and giggles. A pretender, a wannabe, somebody who's not even close to as tough as what came before. (The fact that "General" Hux looks like he's about 20 years old, does nothing to dispel an impression like that.)

Some of those veteran Imperial officers we used to see (such as General Veers and Admiral Piett) would probably spit in the Order's face if they were alive today.

 

[Reverend]

I'd wouldn't characterise it as the Order caring about it's people out of compassion so much as preserving it's limited assets and getting the maximum return on their investment. It's an issue of pragmatic efficiency.

And before we get all misty and nostalgic for the Grand Army of the Republic, remember that it was essentially a slave army. It just so happened that the slaves were engineered for loyalty so most of them didn't even think to object.

 

[Set Harth]

With the new Rogue One trailer, we see that Vader will definitely be a factor in the film, though to what extent is unclear.

Well, at least now we know he... walks toward someone. So that's something.

Would have been nice to see an ignited lightsaber, just sayin'

 

[The Wormhole]

And before we get all misty and nostalgic for the Grand Army of the Republic, remember that it was essentially a slave army. It just so happened that the slaves were engineered for loyalty so most of them didn't even think to object.

In many ways the Jedi were pretty messed up. Their order consists of people who were removed from their families at young ages and indoctrinated since childhood into this lifestyle. And the Clone Army consists of individuals bred specifically to serve as a military force for the Jedi to command. They're born to serve in the military. And while Jedi can leave the Order if they so wish (like Count Dooku) Clones have no choice in the matter.

And while we don't know what kind of family backgrounds the typical First Order officer or enlisted had, we know General Hux anyway was raised by his biological family. But the First Order Storntroopers were removed from their families at young ages and trained from childhood.

I guess the Empire was the only one that seemed somewhat reasonable in this matter. Even the ones who were conscripted were done so when they reached whatever is considered a legal adult age. Their was no indoctrinating children going on there.

 

[Reverend]

^Unless you count the state propaganda, whatever is drilled into them as the academy and/or the no doubt unpleasant things that happen to them if they're found to be force sensitive.

As for the Jedi, they were a monastic order who took children at a young age (presumably) with their parent's permission. For all we know the reason they work this way is that in the past, they trained people as adults and only if they requested it, but that lead to repeated disasters.
One could suggest that not handing your force sensitive child over to be properly educated by the Jedi is viewed as child negligence. Akin to anti-vaccers and people who keep their kids home from school.

 

[Set Harth]

And while Jedi can leave the Order if they so wish (like Count Dooku) Clones have no choice in the matter.

Cut Lawquane deserted.

 

[Ithekro]

Plus the Clones were discussion what they would do after the war, suggesting that they could leave once their service was up. While we know what happened to a small number of clone troopers after the war, one does wonder what having potentially several million men (all with more or less the same face) join the population following the Clone Wars (or at least a decade afterwards when they start to age out).

 

[The Wormhole]

Unless you count the state propaganda, whatever is drilled into them as the academy

Well, at least they got to grow up in a stable environment with their family. Although, I guess even that's questionable, especially if Mommy or Daddy publically said the wrong thing about the Empire.

Cut Lawquane deserted.

Exactly, deserted. We saw no indication any of them had the option to resign. Well, until after the Clone Wars when the Clone Army was disbanded. But I saw that more as the Clones being put out to pasture after their purpose had been served.

 

[Reverend]

Well, at least they got to grow up in a stable environment with their family. Although, I guess even that's questionable, especially if Mommy or Daddy publically said the wrong thing about the Empire.

And how many of them grew up in refugee camps, or in war torn ruins? How many enlisted purely to escape the inevitable poverty of a post-war galaxy. Whichever way you cut it, I don't thing the ranks of the Stormtrooper Corps were filled with the young men and women of the wealthy middle class core worlds who rode out the war in relative safety and stability. Though such people probably do make up a fair portion of the officers.

Such people are fairly easily moulded into oppressors and once they're firmly trapped inside the machine. Before long they'd become more and more dehumanised. Their individuality stripped away one layer at a time.

The difference is numbers. The Empire had literally trillions upon trillions of people to recruit from while the First Order may have a few billion, tops. so they can't afford to so blithely expend people the way they expend ammunition the way the Empire did. Which means a program of more intensive and personal training starting at a young age. Also, such a thing wouldn't be practical under the Empire since you'd end up expending too many resources when really, you want to be acquiring them.

 

[fireproof78]

The First Order seemed to also be investing heavily in equipment as well. One comment that I heard about TFA is that much of the FO's equipment had not been encountered by the Resistance before. Poe's looking around the Star Destroyer is more of an amazed at how large their weapons really were.

 

[Solid Snack]

One thing that seems to be more prevelant are more female troopers and officers, not only in the films but Rebels and the new EU books and comics (Battlefront also gives you the option to play a female Stormtrooper); however, it seems that this is sort of a more Disney thing. There were some female Imperials in the old EU, such as Daala, however this was made to be sort of an exception kind of thing.

 

[The Wormhole]

One thing that seems to be more prevelant are more female troopers and officers, not only in the films but Rebels and the new EU books and comics (Battlefront also gives you the option to play a female Stormtrooper); however, it seems that this is sort of a more Disney thing. There were some female Imperials in the old EU, such as Daala, however this was made to be sort of an exception kind of thing.

Star Wars has been pretty horrible with women pre-Disney in general. Well, pre-Clone Wars, which did have Ahsoka and quite a few memorable female guest stars.
But this video pretty much sums up the women in the OT. Things weren't much better in the prequels either.

 

[Ithekro]

A product of its times when it came to the military and females in combat. Today it might seem odd, but in 1977, having a female stormtrooper would seem weird.

 

[Reverend]

The First Order seemed to also be investing heavily in equipment as well. One comment that I heard about TFA is that much of the FO's equipment had not been encountered by the Resistance before. Poe's looking around the Star Destroyer is more of an amazed at how large their weapons really were.

As I understand it, the First Order is supposed to have signed some arms limitation treaty of which just about everything we see is in blatant violation.

Star Wars has been pretty horrible with women pre-Disney in general. Well, pre-Clone Wars, which did have Ahsoka and quite a few memorable female guest stars.
But this video pretty much sums up the women in the OT. Things weren't much better in the prequels either.

Well that's flagrantly inaccurate! They missed out whatever Oola was yelling at Jabba, all of Sy Snootles's lyrics, along with her backup dancers and the sad Ewok death scene!

A product of its times when it came to the military and females in combat. Today it might seem odd, but in 1977, having a female stormtrooper would seem weird.

And I don't think they could have been trusted not to try putting her in a miniskirt or a breastplate with boobs.

 

[Ithekro]

The remains of the Galactic Empire signed the treaty, but the parts that fled into the Unknown Regions are rogue and rejected the treaty. The Galactic Empire may still exist in the galaxy if it wasn't absorbed by the New Republic, as it isn't the First Order alone.

 

[Reverend]

The remains of the Galactic Empire signed the treaty, but the parts that fled into the Unknown Regions are rogue and rejected the treaty. The Galactic Empire may still exist in the galaxy if it wasn't absorbed by the New Republic, as it isn't the First Order alone.

I'm still a little confused about the ins and out of this whole thing. There seems to be at least three groups that coalesced to form the First Order. The core of it seems to be what remained of the Imperial Fleet that fled into the Unknown Regions following the Battle of Jakku. The second group seems to be pretty much what the Remnant was in the EU: the last Imperial hold-out worlds (the ones said fleet abandoned) with whom the Republic signed the armistice after they surrendered Coruscant. And finally there's the Republic centrist worlds that broke away from the senate following the events of Bloodline.

I'm not clear if and when the Remnant officially joined the First Order, but I got the impression the agents of the exiled fleet and whatever little Empire they managed to carve out for themselves in unknown space were creeping around for years prior to revealing themselves.

 

[fireproof78]

I've listened to and read a lot of information about the First Order, but I still can't figure out where the treaty came from and why the First Order was weaponizing in defiance of it. It suggests a lot of history in terms of the Republic, the Remanent and the First Order, but the First Order's weapons are apparently a huge game changer.

Just trying to figure out where all this is coming through.

 

[Ithekro]

Treaty was the peace that ended the Galactic Civil War in the year following the Battle of Jakku, It was known as the Galactic Concordance.

 

[Reverend]

Treaty was the peace that ended the Galactic Civil War in the year following the Battle of Jakku, It was known as the Galactic Concordance.

Yeah, my confusion stems from how that applies to the First Order, since they're supposedly what became of the faction that left prior to this and as such, didn't sign on. I don't think I've ever seen it stated explicitly when or even if those two factions linked back up and were still expected to adhere to the treaty.