• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Spoilers Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie.


  • Total voters
    222
I never really needed an explanation, I thought it was pretty clear from the movie that it was some kind of preprogramed order that they were somehow forced to follow. All TCW did was give us the details. Or what Reverend just posted while I was typing this.
Of all of the plot holes people complain about, the only one that actually bothered me was Sifo-Dyas. That was set up as a big mystery in AoTC, but then wasn't mentioned in RotS.
 
For the record, I did do some Wookiepedia reading last night. Doesn't change my feeling that RotS itself should have had a bit more of an explanation for the clones sudden-but-inevitable betrayal than "Palpatine gave us some random order, and now the Jedi must die."

The explanation was in AOTC.
 
I have a feeling the chip-in-head thing may have been made up for Clone Wars. I think AOTC implied their loyalty was genetically engineered.
 
I have a feeling the chip-in-head thing may have been made up for Clone Wars. I think AOTC implied their loyalty was genetically engineered.

Possibly. I don't think they've ever specified if this was something Lucas had in mind from the get-go, or only really thought of it in any detail later on. Either way, like the Sifo-Dias plot, kyber crystals, Qui-Gon, force ghosts & Dagobah, it's something he clearly wanted locked down before he left.

Just from a logical stand point, the fact that the phrase "order 66" is used proves that this is a preset thing. He doesn't say "Commander Cody, I order you to kill all Jedi" so a predisposition towards following orders alone can't account for it. The real clue though is in Cody's response: "Yes my Lord."
I feel that's crucial because it's not a term of address for the Chancellor, it's for a Sith Lord. This to me screams "trigger phrase" and "conditioned response". So there's clearly enough there in RotS to indicate some thought was indeed put into this.
 
Last edited:
He should have had some fun and left the whole thing an unfathomably incoherent mess before turning it over to Disney. :lol:

Kor
 
Just from a logical stand point, the fact that the phrase "order 66" is used proves that this is a preset thing. He doesn't say "Commander Cody, I order you to kill all Jedi" so a predisposition towards following orders alone can't account for it.

It only proves that the clones - or at least the commanders - knew what the coded phrase meant, which could easily be information disseminated to them earlier through the chain of command, which happens to be precisely the situation that was portrayed in the now-decanonized EU books.

We may note that Cody doesn't say "Order 66" to his own troops in order to get them to shoot at Obi-Wan; he just says "Blast him!"
 
If you're confused as to why the clones would suddenly turn on the Jedi after just a few words from Palpatine, that's not a failing of the movies. It was incredibly obvious what was going on.
 
He should have had some fun and left the whole thing an unfathomably incoherent mess before turning it over to Disney. :lol:

Kor
"And then Ben says 'From a certain point of view!' And then Luke and Leia (the romantic leads of the first film) are brother and sister!"
 
"And then Ben says 'From a certain point of view!' And then Luke and Leia (the romantic leads of the first film) are brother and sister!"

So in ROTJ, Ben told Luke he had to bury those feelings deep down, because she was actually his sister. :barf2:
What a bummer.

Kor
 
Possibly. I don't think they've ever specified if this was something Lucas had in mind from the get-go, or only really thought of it in any detail later on. Either way, like the Sifo-Dias plot, kyber crystals, Qui-Gon, force ghosts & Dagobah, it's something he clearly wanted locked down before he left.

Just from a logical stand point, the fact that the phrase "order 66" is used proves that this is a preset thing. He doesn't say "Commander Cody, I order you to kill all Jedi" so a predisposition towards following orders alone can't account for it. The real clue though is in Cody's response: "Yes my Lord."
I feel that's crucial because it's not a term of address for the Chancellor, it's for a Sith Lord. This to me screams "trigger phrase" and "conditioned response". So there's clearly enough there in RotS to indicate some thought was indeed put into this.
That was my interpretation as well.
 
Looking at Blu-Ray screen caps of the space scenes at the end of the movie, god damn they're beautiful. There are some shots where the Star Destroyers look like physical models.
 
I finally watched Rogue One. It might be better if I quickly explained my thoughts on the SW universe. I liked SW, I liked ESB a lot. RotJ as passable entertainment but not a great movie. The Lucas prequels are mediocre at best, with the last of them being the best, though that's no high praise.

SPOILERS I SUPPOSE:

Having said that, I watched the Force Awakens with anticipation..with Lucas past the point of the best of his powers, and JJ fresh off the stratospheric success of the Trek Kelvin-era movies I thought it would be a good popcorn movie. It was a disappointment. Not only was it washed out, unimaginative, with mostly forgettable new characters, but it led to my disinterest as a whole to the entire SW franchise.

What's more, I feel coming out with 10 films is a major mistake for Disney...even though SW could be immune to franchise fatigue, the second SW movie already made a lot less than SWFA. There was a lot less "buzz". This led me to have almost no interest in Rogue One.

I watched it yesterday, with some renewed interest. Where does it sit among the SW pantheon? Mildly better than FA, partly due to a superior ending. It's still on the bland side. Despite the dialogue, stupid characters, conceptual confusion and droning politics, Lucas' world vision was much more imaginative than the 2 Disney efforts. I kept waiting for both of them to have half the vibrancy and momentum of the latest ST space opera efforts, but to no avail.

Rogue One starts off slow. Again the characters all kind of look like each other, and get confused in the mix. No one really stands out, good or bad. The reprogrammed robot was much more human and interesting than any of them. There's a muddled plot covering half a dozen different planets before we finally start to move into the Death Star mission debate. During that time, we find out there's an ineffectual Rebel Alliance splinter group (we never really know why) that gets a hold of a weapon designer's daughter. She's constantly scowling and doesn't really care for the Rebellion or the Empire much. Apparently her attitude is much like a lot of fat and happy Americans who don't really mind a little facism as long as they can afford their McMansions. At one point, she even says she won't notice the Empire's flags if she doesn't look up. Eh, ok. George Lucas kind of liked despots too if I recall. Most of this part is inconsequential..it only succeeds to place our characters in position for what we know is coming (another reason why the movie isn't so compelling).

A small point of success. We love to hate the new bad guy. He's dressed in a crisp white Imperial uniform and he spits a lot when he talks, but he's much better than the featherweights from The FA. He is a man of action, he's just a little behind the curve though..he races from planet to planet, slowly realizing what's going on..there's a traitor and the Death Star may have been compromised.

They all meet up on the Caribbean planet. The Imperials back up their data on huge bulky optical drives in giant columns in a central shaft. The Rebels need these plans so they can sabotage the Death Star that has a built-in weakness. One wonders if they simply knew the weakness, why they couldn't muster spies and turncoats like the pilot who was helping them, without launching a massive raid in Episode IV. To make things even more Rebelly, the Rebels think it's a suicide mission to get the plans, so the small group "The Fellowship of the Scowl" try it on their own. When they start to make waves, the real Rebels send help..launching a raid in other planetary system at a moments notice.

At least here the battles are well shot. We can really get on the Rebels side. The battle for the shield is non-sensical but action-packed. The Empire looks hapless, not a tactic to be seen, but they have a lot of firepower. Eventually a second test of the Death Star (remember all those people complaining because the Xindi tested their super weapon once on Earth? Yikes) kills everyone who is left. We see Princess Leia, so at least we know we can invest some interest in those characters again.

Ultimately the movie isn't completely disagreeable. There's some entertainment value here. 2016/early 2017 wasn't a great period for cinematic scifi. This one might even rank in the top 10 somewhere oddly enough. I saw Passengers last week and thought it was a much better "space" movie, with a terrific starship and some questionable morals to debate over. Disney's SW has long lost the cutting edge. TV shows like "The Expanse" leave it in the dust, but as long as the nearly religious following sticks around, the SW universe is in no danger of disappearing.

Grade: C+

RAMA
 
Can I ask if Star Wars was ever on the cutting edge for storytelling? I mean, I thought some of the visuals in RO, even if they were not "cutting edge" certainly pushed the envelope in terms of technical prowess. Maybe I'm a sucker for it, but the inclusion of unused footage, plus recreating Tarkin added a very interesting dynamic to the whole film.

I certainly don't think its groundbreaking like its predecessor, but that's not a standard I hold films too. I found it as a surprisingly in depth look at what it took for simple lines of of crawl script to be explored.
 
Oh yeah, from a storytelling perspective Star Wars is pretty much the opposite of groundbreaking, the whole thing is a giant collection of fantasy tropes, traditional hero's journey, with bits of mythology, history, and a few sci-fi tropes to go along with them. I love the whole franchise, but they don't exactly tell the most original stories.
 
Indeed, the whole point of the story of Star Wars in the past is precisely that it is a very familiar tale. Joseph Campbell's book isn't call "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" for nothing.

If one reads up on how Lucas developed the first movie over the course of about five or six years, it's clear that the actual plot is the least important thing. He spent the most effort figuring out and developing the world of Star Wars before settling on a plot that will introduce it to an audience. Indeed, with each subsequent draft the actual plot got more and more simplified and parred down.

So yeah, citing the lack of story innovation isn't really a valid criticism. It'd be akin to complaining about all the singing in a musical or all the blood and creepy music in a slasher flick.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top