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Spoilers Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Grading & Discussion

Grade the movie.


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JW is an old man and he's not going to be around forever, so I suggest you stop thinking about this as a "flaw", and accept it as a fact of life instead.

I didn't like the score. I thought it was just below sonic wallpaper for a Star Wars movie. And like generally like Giacchino's stuff. But this was boring and banal. Sorry if I offended your tender sensibilities.

Thanks so much for your "suggestion" though! You really did change my thinking with your mature and well-modulated response to my post. Merry Christmas, luv!!!
 
Two points I have thought about:
1.) Why did the Rebel fleet not consider sending a retrieval ship to pick up the surviving members of Rogue One? They had area control - they were able to smash two destroyers without Imperial interference - in space.

2.) As a ship geek, I noticed they changed the appearance of the U-Wing. In the original conception, the troops disembarked down a ramp. In the final conception, the troops disembarked from the sides of the ship. Where the ramp was, there was now a window for the cockpit.
 
Giacchino was brought in at the last minute and only had four weeks to score the movie. Who knows what it could've been like if he had been the composer from the start.
 
Wellya know, now we know that Giacchino is not up to the task of helming the main series after Williams passes. Hopefully Disney starts looking for a new composer soon.
Whilst I agree that most of the music was incidental and lacked the character of a JW Main Series score, with the central theme feeling like a re-purpose of Across the Stars (One of William's finest modern pieces of music and the sole saving grace of AOTC) Giacchino was given a bum deal here by Disney.

You try writing a full score in 4 weeks.

Hugo - couldn't
 
Giacchino did a good job, the guy knows how to score a film.
He knows how to score a film. He knows how to create suspense with music.

What he's not very good at is writing compelling musical themes that stick in one's ear, like JW, Zimmer, Horner, Shore, Goldsmith, Kamen, JN Howard, Trevor Morris... Trek 09 and partly Beyond would be notable exceptions, but other than that, Giacchino is completely unexceptional.
 
JW is an old man and he's not going to be around forever, so I suggest you stop thinking about this as a "flaw", and accept it as a fact of life instead.

I think it's less a lack of John Williams and more of how the score jarringly takes you out of an otherwise solid film
 
Giacchino was brought in at the last minute and only had four weeks to score the movie. Who knows what it could've been like if he had been the composer from the start.
He's a professional, though. He should understand the basic feel of the film and score to that. The score seems to be for a completely different movie, and I don't see an excuse for that.
 
The Williams inspired and direct pieces of the score felt good at the very least. The Imperial March was used to good effect once if came up in full.
 
Yeah, I didn't like that about the whole everybody died thing either. I know, heroic sacrifice, The Charge of the Light Brigade, Remember the Alamo and Masada and all that but I left wishing one of them had survived, even if it was just the droid. That's part of the reason why I doubt I'll ever watch it again.

I don't know, I think that could actually make the characters and movie resonate a whole lot more on repeated viewings, knowing that this is a mission none of them will survive and that it really did take this huge sacrifice for the Alliance to get their hands on the plans. And it also makes the mission to destroy the Death Star in ANH feel a lot more urgent and meaningful now, with those deaths sort of hanging in the air the entire time.

It would be helpful, though, if the non-Williams soundtrack was actually good, though (it's not terrible, just mostly non-descript). :techman:

(Seriously, Kevin Kiner's work on the Clone Wars TV series was much better than Giacchino's RO score.)

Yeah Giacchino has done a ton of great work before, but I can't say his RO score was very memorable. Especially compared to his wonderfully energetic and lyrical Star Trek scores, which I never tire of listening to.
 
I voted A. This is a great movie. It's accessible to the general audience, it's filled with references for the fans that let them appreciate it even more with that knowledge, but all those references serve the story as a whole.* Overall, it just manages to be fun from beginning to end.

* The best example for me is Saw Gerrera, who I knew from having watched The Clone Wars maybe last year. He was shown as an aggressive rebel leader, willing to take things to extremes. Here, we see him as an aggressive rebel leader willing to take things to extremes. The scenes on Jedda and the portrayal of the Rebellion warts and all were probably the highlights of the movie to me.
 
First half of the move was average, very pretty but average. Second half of the movie was amazing.

But I feel there were a few narrative beats that got lost in the edit. The rebel flagship(which should have had a name mentioned) should have been showing taking damage to beat the Star Destroyers and bring the shield down(it would have worked a lot more if that cruiser had pushed the Star Destroyers into each other rather than the corvette for example). Thus showing why the rebel cruiser is disabled instead of mentioning it with a throwaway "its disabled" line. Second, the Deathstar should have nailed at least one of the rebel capital ships to help explain why the rebels do not use any capital ships in Episode IV during their attack.
Finally there is a rather glaring plot hole there at the end. The rebels go back to Yavin(Red and Gold leaders obviously) but the Deathstar plans get sent to Obiwan, who then decides that the plans have to go to the rebels on Yavin. So essentially all of Episode IV is now someone getting some mislabeled mail and taking it to the right address, when it could have been taken straight there by the rebels themselves.
 
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I don't really see it as a plot hole. With all the chaos at the end and with Vader pursuing them every step of the way, the rebels were just barely able to get the plans away at ALL. So it only makes sense that it might take awhile for everyone to regroup and for the plans to make their way back to the rebel base.

And plus it makes sense for Leia and her ship to take a more roundabout route to try to lose Vader first, and not give away the position of the rebel base too soon, before they're ready to strike.
 
Rogue One is an extremely enjoyable prequel to Star Wars(1977)[ANH].
It connects with it the way The Thing(2011) fit with The Thing(1982). It ends where the next begins.
 
Replying to other people:

Yep that was a nice little nod with the Squad Leaders. Poor Red 5 though.
Well, obviously, Red Five couldn't make it out of the movie. He had to get replaced.

The CGI Tarkin and Leia didn't quite work, her especially (his had the advantage of darkened imperial lighting) but were nonetheless impressive.

I thought hers was fortunate to be so brief. When Tarkin wasn't talking, it looked spot on to me. It's in animation that it could sometimes falter. Still, while it obviously was CGI, it's some of the best CG portrayals of humans I've ever seen. I thought Tarkin would be in for three seconds and he ended up being a fairly important character that, to me, was essential for understanding Krennic and Imperial politics. So, as much as I don't like seeing the sausage made or knowing reaction shots are to hide the CG, I absolutely applaud what they did.

Just saw it, and loved it. The story had depth, tied in neatly with ANH (although I'd still like to know what happened to that Death Star frame at the end of RotS - was that a prototype or *the* Death Star and it took just 20 years to finish it... because it looked close to finished back then...)

Eh, it was just a frame back then, not a superweapon. They specifically mentioned at the start of this movie that the work had stalled. Apparently Galen started the work back then, then he left. At that point, they reached a dead end.

One thing I forgot to mention that bothered me: What was that weapon the Rebels used against the Star Destroyer in order to disable its systems? Pretty damn useful weapon...pity we never saw it again.

Ion Cannons. They had a planet-based one in The Empire Strikes Back, which was used to disable the Star Destroyers so the rebel fleet could escape Hoth. In almost every Star Wars video game I've played, Y-Wings come equipped with them.

I just assumed it's Mustafar, because how many lava planets are there associated wirh Vader?
Kinda makes sense that he would build his vacation resort on his second birth planet.

Has to be Mustafar (either that or Barad-Dur). It's the only explanation for why they didn't name the planet (they wanted to keep Vader's appearance a secret for a few additional seconds).

Plus, like Relayer says, the Rebels have lots of Blockade Runners (see below). They probably immediately switched out their previous Imperial ID beacon for a new one, and then made some random jumps instead of hightailing it directly to the nearest Rebel base, hoping that the Imperials lose their track. Maybe even get some other Blockade Runners involved like a shell game. Leia likely doesn't know it was Vader who attacked them previously, so even though it's a long shot, she feigns ignorance.

It works close enough, but the original movie specifically said that transmissions were beamed aboard the ship directly from rebel spies.

Wellya know, now we know that Giacchino is not up to the task of helming the main series after Williams passes. Hopefully Disney starts looking for a new composer soon.

While I wasn't a fan of the score, he had four weeks to make it, so I can't entirely fault him. To me, it was really just generic - neither good nor bad. I think he could have used John Williams a bit more as a crutch and used some more of the original music.

I noticed some of that footage missing (most notably the TIE Fighter and Jyn's interaction with Mon Mothma and General Draven) but I hadn't realized this much footage was missing. What's weird is the amount of footage that was shown so late in the marketing campaign, which was clearly after the reshoots.

The Tie-Fighter scene was cut because, immediately after the Tie appears, a rebel ship blows it up. They felt it was too similar to the scene with the AT-AT earlier.

Two points I have thought about:
1.) Why did the Rebel fleet not consider sending a retrieval ship to pick up the surviving members of Rogue One? They had area control - they were able to smash two destroyers without Imperial interference - in space.

Well, they may have had control at one point (although things looked far from certain on the ground). It's clear they did not have control by the end. Once Vadar showed up, things turned south quickly.

But I feel there were a few narrative beats that got lost in the edit. The rebel flagship(which should have had a name mentioned) should have been showing taking damage to beat the Star Destroyers and bring the shield down(it would have worked a lot more if that cruiser had pushed the Star Destroyers into each other rather than the corvette for example). Thus showing why the rebel cruiser is disabled instead of mentioning it with a throwaway "its disabled" line.

Two things here. The Hammerhead Corvette is a reference to both old non-canon Star Wars and Star Wars Rebels. Including it is a nod to things (and shows the Rebellion has a weapon they can use on point). Second, The Rebel Cruiser was shown being disabled, it was disabled after Darth Vader arrived. I'll address more thoughts below:

Second, the Deathstar should have nailed at least one of the rebel capital ships to help explain why the rebels do not use any capital ships in Episode IV during their attack.

Finally there is a rather glaring plot hole there at the end. The rebels go back to Yavin(Red and Gold leaders obviously) but the Deathstar plans get sent to Obiwan, who then decides that the plans have to go to the rebels on Yavin. So essentially all of Episode IV is now someone getting some mislabeled mail and taking it to the right address, when it could have been taken straight there by the rebels themselves.

Unless we saw different things, I think they addressed both your concerns. Ships from the fleet made it out, but quite a few were hit when Darth Vadar showed up. It was only the ships that jumped out before he arrived that made it back to Yavin. None of those ships had Vader's plans.

They also didn't use any capital ships in the Battle of Yavin because they would have been useless against the Death Star. That's the whole thing about a small one-man ship might be able to slip past the Death Star's defenses. The Empire specifically designed its defenses around a large-scale assault.
 
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The thing is, Bail Organa sends Leia to get Obi-wan Kenobi since both he and Mon Mothma agree they need a Jedi now more than ever. But more or less right after that the Rebel Fleet decided to fight now that Rogue One has been confirmed at the target base. So Leia's ship goes with since they need all the help they can get, and/or their wasn't time to go first.

So she hangs out docked for the battle it seems, than when the plans get to her, and their is the big Star Destroyer nearby (and a Death Star) they decide to head away from Yavin to pick up Kenobi and I suppose hope they can lose the Empire in the process and not lead them to Yavin. The problem is that if there is anyone in the Empire that can track you through hyperspace, it will be Darth Vader. And if there is anyone crazy enough to come out of hyperspace really close to his prey it is also Darth Vader (as we saw Anakin do this a few times in the Clone Wars). I suppose the Rebels hoped they could pass off as just another corvette on arrival to Tatooine, but Vader was there and not buying it. Her mission was to take Obi-wan to Alderaan so he could rally the people against the Empire and prepare for war. But with also having the plans for the Death Star, she figured her father could use the plans and coordinate with the Rebels as Alderaan should still be safe from the Empire's reach. But with the Senate disbanded and her taken prisoner, Tarkin decides to make an example of a Core World that supports the Rebellion. Obi-wan just does what Liea's message said to do. Bring the plans to Alderaan. After that point they need to wing it and trust the Force. Leia takes them to Yavin as that's their only recourse now that Alderaan has met a worse fate than Jedha. Remember Jedha falls quickly to the wayside as Alderaan becames the example of the cruelty of the Empire.


As for why they didn't send a ship down for Rogue One, the Death Star arrived just after the shields fell. The got the transmission, then huge thing comes out of hyperspace. "Run". Just that when they started to run Vader arrive in the thick of them, because Vader is crazy skilled enough to do that.
 
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I voted A. This is a great movie. It's accessible to the general audience, it's filled with references for the fans that let them appreciate it even more with that knowledge, but all those references serve the story as a whole.* Overall, it just manages to be fun from beginning to end.

* The best example for me is Saw Gerrera, who I knew from having watched The Clone Wars maybe last year. He was shown as an aggressive rebel leader, willing to take things to extremes. Here, we see him as an aggressive rebel leader willing to take things to extremes. The scenes on Jedda and the portrayal of the Rebellion warts and all were probably the highlights of the movie to me.

I don't know, as fun as it was to spot the cameos, it did feel to me like the movie was a little TOO crammed with them. Especially in the Jedha city scene. Or in the way R2 and 3PO popped up for no real reason.

That being said though, it was pretty cool seeing the Ghost from Rebels pop up a couple times. And I'll need to watch the movie again to find Chopper, who was also in there according to this:
http://nerdist.com/star-wars-rebels-easter-eggs-in-rogue-one/
 
Most people are complaining about the lack of John Williams and I'm over here actually glad he wasn't involved. Aside from a handful of themes, particularly the quieter ones, I've always found WIlliams' scores for Star Wars overly loud and bombastic and unsubtle. Quite frankly, not having him score this film was a breath of fresh air. I've always been found of Michael Giacchino's work, even if I don't rank him among my top favorites, and he did a good enough job for me.

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"Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by rebel spies."

Leia's ship should have been standing by somewhere at the edge of the system, not in the hangar of a ship in the thick of a battle where it could have easily been destroyed. Of course, then you can't have the Vader scenes as presented.
Er, yes. Right. Duh. :o

Obviously, the line I referred to was from the scene with Darth Vader confronting the captain. Still, as others have said, Darth Vader was probably overgeneralizing. I still don't see this as a big deal.

Ion Cannons. They had a planet-based one in The Empire Strikes Back, which was used to disable the Star Destroyers so the rebel fleet could escape Hoth. In almost every Star Wars video game I've played, Y-Wings come equipped with them.
I'm glad someone noticed this question. Thanks for clearing that up. It's been awhile since I've seen The Empire Strikes Back so thank you for the reminder.

Has to be Mustafar (either that or Barad-Dur). It's the only explanation for why they didn't name the planet (they wanted to keep Vader's appearance a secret for a few additional seconds).
I'm glad I wasn't the only to think of Barad-Dur. :lol:

The Tie-Fighter scene was cut because, immediately after the Tie appears, a rebel ship blows it up. They felt it was too similar to the scene with the AT-AT earlier.
Ah, that makes sense. Pity because that was one the things from the trailers I was looking forward to the most.
 
(Seriously, Kevin Kiner's work on the Clone Wars TV series was much better than Giacchino's RO score.)

Bless you sir.

edit: I'm sorry if I become irrational regarding the music, but I've never had a score ruin a film experience for me. It was putrid, overblown shit that didn't fit the film in any way what-so-ever. I hope the masters are incinerated.
 
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