Roddenberry's Worst Ideas
- Thread starter ZapBrannigan
- Start date
"Here's your house, here's your replicator, don't bug us."
From the "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" novelization:
01. Kirk (and other Starfleet personnel) having something implanted in his brain to allow him to view the Klingon transmission of their encounter with an intruder (V'ger).
02. That Starfleet personnel are primitive or less sophisticated compared to the rest of the human race. That these lesser humans are well suited for space exploration.
I'm glad these 2 ideas did not make it into the film.
Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\
01. Kirk (and other Starfleet personnel) having something implanted in his brain to allow him to view the Klingon transmission of their encounter with an intruder (V'ger).
02. That Starfleet personnel are primitive or less sophisticated compared to the rest of the human race. That these lesser humans are well suited for space exploration.
I'm glad these 2 ideas did not make it into the film.
Navigator NCC-2120 USS Entente
/\
Last edited:
Like Data's maid in AGT. Is she cleaning up after him, servicing him, doing chores for him because she finds it fulfilling?
Or the Starfleet groundskeeper Picard spoke about--why is he putting so much effort to make Starfleet Academy so beautiful?
It's not his property and he's not getting paid to do it.
In Tapestry, Picard once called a job he had in an alternate life a dreary job, suggesting that it was beneath him-- this seems to say that there is a form of snobbery that still exists when it comes to jobs.
But by calling it a dreary job may be an insult to someone who studied years just to do that.
Dude, you're not thinking it through. First defined paid? Aren't they already being paid forward by living in a society that doesn't require money and allows them so much in return for whatever it is they decide to do?
And think of necessity. The mundane or menial jobs can be rotated like in kibbutz. Say two weeks out of the year you wash windows or scrub toilets (assuming that's still even necessary in the future). You do it out of necessity, the greatest incentive ever! Otherwise it's back to being a wage-slave and living in debt. Think it through.
I would have to disagree. The first is a great scifi concept. The second helps explain why the Starfleet crews we see seem like so much like 20th century humans when the human race should have changed quite a bit in 300 years.
Because they want MORE money to buy more shit.
Yeah but in a society in which they can own what they want, things'd be a bit different.
Real examples, please. Not fictional ones.
He makeing a point on that crap jobs exsist in the 24th century.
So yeah there has to be some incentive!
sorry, no. Many athletes or movie stars have more than $100 million, which is enough to buy basically what you want for life. They're not playing/making movies to "earn" the money to buy yet another yacht.
We're arguing that the idea of a moneyless society is silly because it would never work. Pointing out that it works on the show is beside the point.
It's not your place to decide for others if they need more money. If they didn't think they did, they would work for a lot less, and yet they don't. Ergo, they want the money, too.
It's a minor point, but the bolded doesn't follow.
I've no idea why people keep bringing up the USSR in this discussion. The USSR used money, you know?
That raises another interesting point. If Starfleet officers are not getting paid and they're free to resign at any point, as we've seen, how would punishment ever be enforced?
Wouldn't, "Ensign Ricky, for your deriliction of duty you must go to waste extraction and work a shift," often be followed by, "Then I resign my commission as a Starfleet officer," and, of course, a dramatic removal of a com badge?
And yet Belz, I've pointed out more than once that moneyless societies have proven to be quite functional. It comes down to meeting people's needs not what form the transaction must take. In a monetary system the general public (i.e. the workers) are essentially paying twice at marked up rates for what they already produced. That's how dispossession works under both forms of capitalism: the corporate form and the statist form.
"Avoid self-destruction, recognize - and renounce money for the impovershing ration system it really was..." -- Matter by Iain Banks page 174.
R. I. P. Iain Banks 1954 - 2013
And I think those examples show that picard was talking out his arse.
I must've missed it. Which real-life societies are functional without money, aside from primitive tribes ?
TheGoodNews has brought up a single semi-modern example of moneyless communities in pre-WWII Spain. The problem with his one example is that it's impossible to know if it would have worked over a protracted period of time, or with a large population group.
The small moneyless communities backed the losing side (the Frente Popular) in the Spanish civil war and the moneyless experiment cease to exist.
Even you would have to admit that that is quite a stretch.
First it's not clear that Starfleet officers aren't receiving pay, some very obviously have financial means.
Using a comparison to modern militaries, people who have been found to have committed an illegal offense prior to leaving the service, they (as a civilian) can still be tried in a military court of law. Even if your offense isn't discovered for many years.
If brought up on changes, simply resigning wouldn't get you out of legal prosecution. If found guilty, simply having resigned wouldn't prevent your punishment.
If your offense was severe enough, you might be expelled from the service after serving your sentence.
Last edited:
Trying to relate this to real human nature ...
If you wanted a new building for your business, who would you call to design it? Who would you call to supply the steel to frame it? Who would they employ to mine the ore, smelt it, make the beams, etc.? Who would you call to excavate the site? All for no exchange, no money? Would people do these things out of the goodness of their hearts so you could have your building?
Who would build the power plants? Who would run the water and sewer lines? Who would pave the streets, drive the public transport, and on and on and on.
If you managed to get your building up, who would work there? Who would be the boss, and who would be the subordinates? If the boss tells you to do something you don't want to do, would you do it without question or would you tell him to take a flying leap because if he fired you it wouldn't matter as you're not being paid anyway?
I'd really like to know.
If you wanted a new building for your business, who would you call to design it? Who would you call to supply the steel to frame it? Who would they employ to mine the ore, smelt it, make the beams, etc.? Who would you call to excavate the site? All for no exchange, no money? Would people do these things out of the goodness of their hearts so you could have your building?
Who would build the power plants? Who would run the water and sewer lines? Who would pave the streets, drive the public transport, and on and on and on.
If you managed to get your building up, who would work there? Who would be the boss, and who would be the subordinates? If the boss tells you to do something you don't want to do, would you do it without question or would you tell him to take a flying leap because if he fired you it wouldn't matter as you're not being paid anyway?
I'd really like to know.
Similar threads
