Rocket Scientists Say We'll Never Reach the Stars

[scotthm]

Scrap the word 'believe'. :-)

No, it can be very useful.

If all of the worlds scientists in the field would work together on a regular basis (funding not being a problem) towards realizing this particular objective ... then it's theoretically possible we could construct a very primitive (from the aliens perspective) yet functional FTL drive within the next 20 years.

No, it's not. There is no theory of FTL travel that we have any hope of putting to the test within the next 20 years.

If you believe I'm wrong, then present your case. Which theories do you propose we spend our efforts on?

Also ... if the hypothetical aliens provide us with a specific time-frame ... then they must have calculated the potential probabilities of our success and present level of technology.

Since it's all science fiction anyway, I suppose we can assume just about anything. I'm more inclined to think that aliens with such an attitude towards 'inferior' worlds would just start exploiting our system without the preliminaries.

It would be interesting to see if the idiots we have in power throughout the world though will consider the situation and actually work together instead of 'every state/nation for themselves'.

Interesting is not the word I would use. How would you feel if we discovered a 50 mile wide asteroid on a collision course with Earth, scheduled to strike in 20 years?

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[Admiral Buzzkill]

Interesting is not the word I would use. How would you feel if we discovered a 50 mile wide asteroid on a collision course with Earth, scheduled to strike in 20 years?

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A lot less concerned about global warming and a lot more inclined to respond to all of those credit card offers that come in the mail.

 

[Deks]

No, it can be very useful.

Limit yourself if you wish ... I stopped perceiving life and various aspects of it in such a context because I found it incredibly ridiculous/primitive.

No, it's not. There is no theory of FTL travel that we have any hope of putting to the test within the next 20 years.

If you believe I'm wrong, then present your case. Which theories do you propose we spend our efforts on?

Again with the word.
Use it if you must, but don't assume that I or numerous other people ascribe to it as well.
As for your claim that there is no theory of FTL travel ...
I was merely speaking about the fact that we came up with theoretical ideas about FTL (which we have), not ones that would allow us to construct it.
We have theories ... and if Earth pooled it's resources, there is a good possibility that we could construct an FTL drives in several decades.
Technology advances, and there have been many leaps over the past 10 years alone in computer technology ... the next 10 years (let alone 20) are quite frankly unpredictable.

Of course there is a difference since there is obviously much more focus (and money investment) on computer technology than space travel (hence why we are essentially stuck on producing potential theories on FTL only and nothing practical).

Since it's all science fiction anyway, I suppose we can assume just about anything. I'm more inclined to think that aliens with such an attitude towards 'inferior' worlds would just start exploiting our system without the preliminaries.

Oh it's quite possible the aliens would simply exploit our system without the preliminaries, but it's not definitive or guaranteed.
On another note, who's to stop them anyway?
We sure can't given the fact we'd be far too behind in technology and no real effort is being made towards space travel.

Interesting is not the word I would use. How would you feel if we discovered a 50 mile wide asteroid on a collision course with Earth, scheduled to strike in 20 years?

For one thing I would consider the possibility that in the next 20 years (before the asteroid in question hits) we might actually develop technology to eliminate such a threat ... or at least change it's trajectory.

When dealing with potential thought of slavery ... well, it's not a guaranteed extinction of an entire race, plus there's always a way for rebellion to take place down the road.

However, wouldn't it be simpler to merely construct a biological virus that would kill all human life on Earth leaving technology and built cities (as primitive as they may be) intact?
Plus ... why would we be used as slavers?
Especially if they have the technology to do all the dirty menial work?
Why leave a race alive to potentially present a problem down the line?

 

[scotthm]

Again with the word.
Use it if you must, but don't assume that I or numerous other people ascribe to it as well.

I don't know what your hang up is with the word 'believe', but I'm not going to stop using it, and that's something you can believe.

We have theories ... and if Earth pooled it's resources, there is a good possibility that we could construct an FTL drives in several decades.

This is nothing more than a statement of faith. The people who would be called upon to work on such a project would do good to have as much faith in it as you seem to have.

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[Meredith]

We could put money in experiments that probe the depths of matter and properties of spacetime which could have spin off applications in FLT drives.

 

[Trekker4747]

Do you know how long human beings, as such, have been around BTW?

50-60,000 years, IIRC.

 

[Brolan]

I would hope calmer heads would prevail and they would realize it would be hopeless to fight a force with technology at least hundreds of years ahead of our own.

You saw what happened during the two Gulf Wars when a force with a much smaller technological advantage (US) came up against an inferior one (Iraq). The poor Iraqi military was slaughtered.

Yeah and look what has happened since the 2003 war - thousands of coalition troops have died in an extremely costly occupation because of a cleverly organised insurgency by the same vastly inferior technological force.

The US military would doubtless love fights to come down to technology all the time (they would always win) but a guerilla war requires the simplest of technology and methods, and even a technologically superior force has trouble dealing with it.

Add to it that some of the Iraqi population are friendly and is doubtful that the aliens would have an easy ride, unless they just want to nuke us from space of course.

You shot down your own argument right there at the end.

 

[Deks]

I don't know what your hang up is with the word 'believe', but I'm not going to stop using it, and that's something you can believe.

I haven't said you have to stop using the word.
I merely asked you to stop attributing it to me.

This is nothing more than a statement of faith. The people who would be called upon to work on such a project would do good to have as much faith in it as you seem to have.

To my knowledge scientists are theorizing about FTL today.
You seem adamant into continuously stating something that doesn't apply to me.
I merely wrote down one potential possibility. Just how likely is for that possibility to realize is another matter ... nothing more and nothing less.

Te terms 'belief' and 'faith' as such don't fall into this equation.

Given our technological level and the fact we already have theoretical ideas about FTL (not to mention numerous other aspects) ... the biggest obstacles we are faced with today are: money, working separately and no real interest in space travel.

 

[USS KG5]

Add to it that some of the Iraqi population are friendly and is doubtful that the aliens would have an easy ride, unless they just want to nuke us from space of course.

You shot down your own argument right there at the end.

No I didn't - that really would rather rule out the slaves bit wouldn't it, in the original post our fellow poster said the aliens would make us slaves, rather than vaporize us. Besides I'm discussing the point, I'm not aiming to debate wholly for either side.

This would require a level of genuine submission on our part, and that is not easy to get, look at history.

Now ultimately this is all sci-fi we are talking here. It is very unlikely any alien race would bother with Earth in any way until we became a threat. Look at Stargate SG-1 in its early seasons to see this discussed, although admittedly not in a "hard" sci-fi way.

If we were to be attacked for our resources it would make more sense for the aliens to trade, assuming they are not just ID4 style space-bastards. A good example of this working is here on Earth, where the USA's "empire" of free-market consumerist states aligned with the USA have been influenced far more by trade than by force of arms.

 

[scotthm]

Given our technological level and the fact we already have theoretical ideas about FTL (not to mention numerous other aspects) ... the biggest obstacles we are faced with today are: money, working separately and no real interest in space travel.

So the physical laws of the universe are only a minor consideration I suppose?

I'd say it takes a lot of faith in Man's ingenuity to prevent you from putting reality at the top of your 'biggest obstacles' list.

How many of our theoretical ideas of FTL travel seem to have a hope of any practical application?

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[USS KG5]

Given our technological level and the fact we already have theoretical ideas about FTL (not to mention numerous other aspects) ... the biggest obstacles we are faced with today are: money, working separately and no real interest in space travel.

We have theories about FTL but nothing concrete, no-one has actually managed to take those theories to the extreme where they could build a prototype, or even design one.

The big problems you describe are pretty fundamental however and go far byond space travel. We live in an extremely violent world where wealth is poorly distributed and resources are sometimes scarce to the extent that wars are fought over them.

Against this background it is extremely hard to justify a massive space program for any country, the USA is by far the richest country in the world but continualy has to balance it's budget for NASA with other concerns.

We need a space program and it probably deserves a more international approach and better funding. This does however have to come as a result of greater worldwide economic and political co-operation. If we get that then life will become a lot easier for everything, not just space travel.

 

[Meredith]

We need to atleast establish self sustaining colonies in the solar system. With that tech we could stay alive for at least 4 billion year regardless of what happens to the earth itself.

 

[scotthm]

We need to atleast establish self sustaining colonies in the solar system. With that tech we could stay alive for at least 4 billion year regardless of what happens to the earth itself.

Until we have self sustaining habitations in the least hospitable places on Earth I don't expect to see them on other worlds.

Before we even talk about setting up a colony off world, let's try a few decades with a small, self sustained city in the heart of Antarctica, for example. If we can't make that work, forget about colonizing the solar system.

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[Deks]

Given our technological level and the fact we already have theoretical ideas about FTL (not to mention numerous other aspects) ... the biggest obstacles we are faced with today are: money, working separately and no real interest in space travel.

So the physical laws of the universe are only a minor consideration I suppose?

I'd say it takes a lot of faith in Man's ingenuity to prevent you from putting reality at the top of your 'biggest obstacles' list.

How many of our theoretical ideas of FTL travel seem to have a hope of any practical application?

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You just don't get it, do you?
I haven't said (nor do I think) the physical laws of the universe are a small issue at all (in fact I haven't even mentioned them).
Problem is we will never get anywhere if we don't even start trying.
The problems I listed are the basic ones which should be handled first if we'd want to START getting anywhere.
And we are speaking for a hypothetical situation in the first place.

Besides, I explicitly stated a singular theoretical possibility ... I never said it's definitive or that it would work 100%.
Again it has nothing to do with your so called concept of 'faith'.

 

[scotthm]

I haven't said (nor do I think) the physical laws of the universe are a small issue at all (in fact I haven't even mentioned them).

Exactly right; you didn't mention them when you discussed the "biggest obstacles" to FTL travel.

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[Deks]

I haven't said (nor do I think) the physical laws of the universe are a small issue at all (in fact I haven't even mentioned them).

Exactly right; you didn't mention them when you discussed the "biggest obstacles" to FTL travel.

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That is because if you want to be EFFECTIVE and satisfy the hypothetical time-frame that was proposed, we'd first have to eliminate the issues that would hold us back to begin with ... once those are out of the way, then you can worry about the physical laws of the universe which could quite possibly present an issue when developing an FTL drive.
Have a good day.

 

[Deckerd]

Hypothetical time-frames are science fiction, surely?

 

[USS KG5]

We need to atleast establish self sustaining colonies in the solar system. With that tech we could stay alive for at least 4 billion year regardless of what happens to the earth itself.

Until we have self sustaining habitations in the least hospitable places on Earth I don't expect to see them on other worlds.

Before we even talk about setting up a colony off world, let's try a few decades with a small, self sustained city in the heart of Antarctica, for example. If we can't make that work, forget about colonizing the solar system.

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Well we have small villages in Antarctica, supplied once a year. I know because the company I work for works with the British Antarctic Survey.

BUT -why would you want a colony on another planet, only three reasons I can think of: -

1. Mining and resource gathering - so you would need significant natural resources and a compelling reason to believe that basing your operations on a colony, rather than just on Earth (and spaceflight would have to be reasonably routine for a colony to be sustainable).
2. Building a new world - would require a very Earth like planet or terrafroming technology. There are none of the former in our system and the latter does not exist.
3. Long term scientific study - would require a reasonably bountiful ecosystem to be worthwhile, again unlikely in our solar system.

There is no reason to live on another planet for its own sake, it would suck, you would have literally nothing to do. If we found a new Earth we could get to or a planet teeming with life, or massive and rare resources - sure - but otherwise I can't see anyone justifying the huge cost.

 

[Brolan]

That's the problem. If a company saw big money to be made in space we would have cities in space right now. But the costs and risks are too high and there is no "killer app" in space yet. And I don't see it getting much cheaper in the future either.

After thinking about it I've come to realize is the most important thing to get man in space for good is to find a good economic reason to be up there. Once you do that everything else will follow.

 

[USS KG5]

After thinking about it I've come to realize is the most important thing to get man in space for good is to find a good economic reason to be up there. Once you do that everything else will follow.

Very good point.