Rocket Scientists Say We'll Never Reach the Stars
- Thread starter Bad Bishop
- Start date
I don't believe for a minute that anything we'd recognize as human beings will ever travel to other stars.
Ever.
Ever.
That's very narrowminded. We've only a small understanding of the universe. An understanding that changes every year and changes dramaticaly every generation. Saying stuff like this is no different than the above statements people have made about man never flying, never living under the ocean, never traveling faster than a certain speed, never getting into orbit, never going to the moon.
Today we may not think we can travel to other stars but 10 years from now we may find a way to bend space and have the power systems to do it. We don't know where we'll be in 100 years, 200 years, 500 years.
We've. No. Idea! We may never find a way to travel between the stars in a manner that makes it practical that circumvents time-dilation. But I'd rather people think that we may be able to do it and try and achieve it rather than say we can't so they're not going to try.
I think they are right-- we will never get to the stars based on technology that relies on velocity.
Even if we went 10% of light speed, the energy consumption would be horrendous, and it would still take about 43 years to reach the nearest star.
It will be some other technology -- perhaps invented 10,000 years from now, that will allow us to traverse light years.
A technology that we (as a species) may not even fathom yet at this point in our understanding of science.
Even if we went 10% of light speed, the energy consumption would be horrendous, and it would still take about 43 years to reach the nearest star.
It will be some other technology -- perhaps invented 10,000 years from now, that will allow us to traverse light years.
A technology that we (as a species) may not even fathom yet at this point in our understanding of science.
Those who say FTL travel cannot be done are correct because they will never achieve it.
If it is possible to reach the stars it will never happen. This because there is no will to spend the trillion (perhaps trillions of) dollars to research the new technologies needed, and to build the ship. We barely fund the relatively inexpensive rocket technology to get back to the moon.
The only way I see it happening is this kind of scenario:
A huge ship lands on National Mall in Washington DC. An alien gets out and addresses the crowd and news crews that gather around the ship. "Greetings from the Galactic Federation. We have determined it is time to contact your species. You may have noticed our ships buzzing around from time to time."
"You are eligible for membership in the Federation. To qualify for membership you must successfully construct a FTL vessel and travel to another star in the next 20 years."
"Should you fail to achieve this goal you will be declared a resource world for the Federation. Your world will be stripped of its resources and your people will be used as slave labor for Federation members. Good Luck!"
The only way I see it happening is this kind of scenario:
A huge ship lands on National Mall in Washington DC. An alien gets out and addresses the crowd and news crews that gather around the ship. "Greetings from the Galactic Federation. We have determined it is time to contact your species. You may have noticed our ships buzzing around from time to time."
"You are eligible for membership in the Federation. To qualify for membership you must successfully construct a FTL vessel and travel to another star in the next 20 years."
"Should you fail to achieve this goal you will be declared a resource world for the Federation. Your world will be stripped of its resources and your people will be used as slave labor for Federation members. Good Luck!"
That wouldn't do it. We'd spend the next twenty years developing new weapons to combat the returning aliens.
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...And quite right too, another way of saying what our alien friend said would be: -
"Hi, we're the Space Nazis, we have decided it is time to set you a test to decide whether you are worthy to walk amongst us, if you fail we will declare you unworthy and strip mine your world and use you as slaves!!"
I imagine the alien would be extremely lucky to get away in one piece.
A
Amaris
Guest
There's always a trick.
The universe is setup in a way that allows for things thought impossible to be possible.
What about something based on the duality principle?
J.
The universe is setup in a way that allows for things thought impossible to be possible.
What about something based on the duality principle?
J.
I would hope calmer heads would prevail and they would realize it would be hopeless to fight a force with technology at least hundreds of years ahead of our own.
You saw what happened during the two Gulf Wars when a force with a much smaller technological advantage (US) came up against an inferior one (Iraq). The poor Iraqi military was slaughtered.
You saw what happened during the two Gulf Wars when a force with a much smaller technological advantage (US) came up against an inferior one (Iraq). The poor Iraqi military was slaughtered.
While at the same time thinking we could develop this "hundreds of years ahead of our own" FTL technology in just 20 years?
When faced with two such 'impossible' tasks, we'd probably stand a better chance of success improving what we understand (weapons) rather than trying to create what we don't understand (FTL travel.)
Or I suppose we could just go about our business as usual and await our enslavement with calm despair.
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You are forgetting that those 'improved' weapons would still be vastly inferior to the ones the hypothetical advanced aliens posses and we STILL wouldn't be able to offer sufficient resistance (not even remotely).
In such a scenario, I think we'd have a better chance of creating a working and extremely primitive (at least by the aliens standards) FTL drive.
The terms are to create a working FTL drive ... not something on their level of technological capability/sophistication since THAT would be impossible given the fact they would be possibly hundreds of years more advanced.
We already have several theories on potential FTL drives.
Pool the entire world together to work on the problem, and there's a possibility we'd have a viable solution that could be constructed in just less than 20 years.
You apparently believe we already have some practical ideas about how to build a FTL drive. That's not the case.
If a stranger told you that in a year they'd come back and kill you if you couldn't leap over the Empire State Building in a single bound would you spend your time practicing the jump, or would you arrange for protection for yourself?
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No, it's not. It's just reasonably well informed as opposed to wishful thinking.
Do you know how long human beings, as such, have been around BTW?
If that stranger were eighteen feet tall, nine feet wide, and covered in impenetrable armor I'd start a jumpin'
Yeah and look what has happened since the 2003 war - thousands of coalition troops have died in an extremely costly occupation because of a cleverly organised insurgency by the same vastly inferior technological force.
The US military would doubtless love fights to come down to technology all the time (they would always win) but a guerilla war requires the simplest of technology and methods, and even a technologically superior force has trouble dealing with it.
Add to it that some of the Iraqi population are friendly and is doubtful that the aliens would have an easy ride, unless they just want to nuke us from space of course.
To quote Voyager: -
"If we transported 500 drones onto your ship, would you be able to offer sufficient resistance?"
...
"We'd die trying"
There is no way that humanity would go down without a fight, it is just not in our nature.
I think the aliens would be fairer to say 200, not 20.
Fortunately as a hypothetical argument it is not very likely.
In our lifetime? no, we will never reach the stars. But that is not our goal, at least not yet as like every generation before us we must simply act like one more step forward until the day (when ever/if ever) we have enough understanding to do so.
The first person to build a boat to cross a river didnt say 'right now what do i need to do to overcome mass in order to generate enough energy to travel faster then light??' he probably said something closer to 'what do i need to build to cross a lake?'
Constant steps forward, the problem is that the level of technology feasible in media has hyped our imaginations to a level higher then we can achieve in our lifetimes, we are simply aiming too high, we should simply be focusing on making as many step forwards in our generational turn to give the next more of a chance.
The first person to build a boat to cross a river didnt say 'right now what do i need to do to overcome mass in order to generate enough energy to travel faster then light??' he probably said something closer to 'what do i need to build to cross a lake?'
Constant steps forward, the problem is that the level of technology feasible in media has hyped our imaginations to a level higher then we can achieve in our lifetimes, we are simply aiming too high, we should simply be focusing on making as many step forwards in our generational turn to give the next more of a chance.
You apparently believe we already have some practical ideas about how to build a FTL drive. That's not the case.
If a stranger told you that in a year they'd come back and kill you if you couldn't leap over the Empire State Building in a single bound would you spend your time practicing the jump, or would you arrange for protection for yourself?
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Scrap the word 'believe'. :-)
I never said we have practical ideas on how to build an FTL drive.
I said we have theories on potential FTL solutions.
If all of the worlds scientists in the field would work together on a regular basis (funding not being a problem) towards realizing this particular objective ... then it's theoretically possible we could construct a very primitive (from the aliens perspective) yet functional FTL drive within the next 20 years.
We are not talking about each country for themselves anymore, we are talking about collective collaboration for 2 decades.
There is also a possibility that the government has at it's disposal technology at least 10 to 25 years ahead of what we use in the mainstream ... which would provide us with a certain edge (but I repeat, it's only a possibility, not necessarily something that has basis in real life).
Also ... if the hypothetical aliens provide us with a specific time-frame ... then they must have calculated the potential probabilities of our success and present level of technology.
That is IF they are playing fair.
So IF the aliens are playing fair and made the necessary calculations, they would specify a time-frame which they think is long enough for our level of technology and intelligence thus providing us with a fair shot.
As for weapons ... I don't see why we wouldn't be able to work on the weapons simultaneously as we do on the FTL drive.
It's a different field after all, and both can interact on their discoveries thus possibly speeding things up for everyone.
But I repeat ... any weapons we'd come up with would be vastly inferior to the aliens.
Is that an incentive to give up ?
No ... and of course you simply can't take anyone's word at face value.
But being prepared for numerous possibilities would be prudent.
It would be interesting to see if the idiots we have in power throughout the world though will consider the situation and actually work together instead of 'every state/nation for themselves'.
If a stranger told you that in a year they'd come back and kill you if you couldn't leap over the Empire State Building in a single bound would you spend your time practicing the jump, or would you arrange for protection for yourself?
---------------[/quote]
Scrap the word 'believe'. :-)
I never said we have practical ideas on how to build an FTL drive.
I said we have theories on potential FTL solutions.
If all of the worlds scientists in the field would work together on a regular basis (funding not being a problem) towards realizing this particular objective ... then it's theoretically possible we could construct a very primitive (from the aliens perspective) yet functional FTL drive within the next 20 years.
We are not talking about each country for themselves anymore, we are talking about collective collaboration for 2 decades.
There is also a possibility that the government has at it's disposal technology at least 10 to 25 years ahead of what we use in the mainstream ... which would provide us with a certain edge (but I repeat, it's only a possibility, not necessarily something that has basis in real life).
Also ... if the hypothetical aliens provide us with a specific time-frame ... then they must have calculated the potential probabilities of our success and present level of technology.
That is IF they are playing fair.
So IF the aliens are playing fair and made the necessary calculations, they would specify a time-frame which they think is long enough for our level of technology and intelligence thus providing us with a fair shot.
As for weapons ... I don't see why we wouldn't be able to work on the weapons simultaneously as we do on the FTL drive.
It's a different field after all, and both can interact on their discoveries thus possibly speeding things up for everyone.
But I repeat ... any weapons we'd come up with would be vastly inferior to the aliens.
Is that an incentive to give up ?
No ... and of course you simply can't take anyone's word at face value.
But being prepared for numerous possibilities would be prudent.
It would be interesting to see if the idiots we have in power throughout the world though will consider the situation and actually work together instead of 'every state/nation for themselves'.
Your answer - the whole hypothetical, in fact - assumes that an FTL drive is possible.
The issue here is that there's no reason to think that's true. People who want to believe in FTL rely upon extrapolations from bits of physics that have no practical applicability to the question, to reasoning by false analogy, and by invalid appeals to authority ("So-and-so is a world-famous smart person and he thinks it's possible...").
The issue here is that there's no reason to think that's true. People who want to believe in FTL rely upon extrapolations from bits of physics that have no practical applicability to the question, to reasoning by false analogy, and by invalid appeals to authority ("So-and-so is a world-famous smart person and he thinks it's possible...").
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