Roberto Orci's Star Trek 3

[Malaika]

Honestly, I doubt Orci's script would restore the timeline. The guy created it and was very defensive about the reboot. Not to mention that "restoring the timeline" is literally impossible for the science of this trek since the reboot is an alternate reality parallel to tos. Changing this reality would just result in the crew accessing to/creating yet another parallel reality.

I probably said this before but I think the point of his story was temptation, but they wouldn't "restore" anything. You don't spoil the whole story at the beginning, let alone the summary.
Knowing him from his comments, I could see him teasing a story that seems to give haters everything they want only to essentially deny it all to them in the end, and possibly use the movie as yet another pretext to reinforce the fact that the reboot is here to stay and people gotta "deal" with the alternate reality being its own. He'd probably pander to haters just to further demolish their theories more than anything.

Regardless Orci, I doubt paramount&Co would ever agree to have a movie that deletes their new shiny kelvin timeline trek. It makes no sense, it's like creative suicide and giving up about millions (because ending this trek like that would make it difficult to possibly do more movies or license more novels and comics that continue the adventures of this trek)
Would you do that?

Frankly, I think even Discovery was probably meant to be in the reboot timeline originally but since it's owned by paramount&bad robot, they couldn't do that. But it's obvious that it's far more inspired by JJ's trek than tos, and that they copied the aspects they could use as inspiration while being forced to retcon the prime timeline. Hiring Kurtzman is also hint, for me, of them wanting the series to be like the reboot without being set in the reboot.

The kelvin timeline is the only successful trek they have right now so I doubt that they are letting go of it any time soon, even if they didn't make more movies with these characters.

 

[The Wormhole]

Frankly, I think even Discovery was probably meant to be in the reboot timeline originally but since it's owned by paramount&bad robot, they couldn't do that.

I see no reason to disbelieve the claim they never wanted to do that because that would be coordinating around any potential new movie(s).

 

[Malaika]

I see no reason to disbelieve the claim they never wanted to do that because that would be coordinating around any potential new movie(s).

I think the (c) business when it comes to tv trek and movie verse trek is more complext than that and might, unfortunately, be the biggest hindrance trek has right now compared to other franchises.

Technically, I see no reason why Discovery couldn't be set in the kelvin timeline as long as it isn't about Kirk&Co (hence deleting the 'coordinating around any potential new movies' issue) . In many ways, it would have given the writers way more creative freedom too. I don't object to Spock having a human step sister like some do, for example, but even I recognize it would have been more fitting if this had been one of the different things happening in the alternate timeline. By ostensibly making the series into prime trek they are, inevitably, retconning 50 years of canon adding stuff that can potentially conflict with what has been established already. I'd honestly feel more limited. While with the kelvin timeline, it's an alternate reality so, in a sense, you are compelled to show the differences.

From a marketing perspective, since they are always going after the general audience more than the old fans, it would be far more convenient for them to make a new series that takes advantage of the popularity the reboot, the current trek the general audience is consuming, than get back to prime trek, especially if they want to capture the interest of the people who made the reboot successful and that would, probably, be more willing to give Discovery a chance if it was linked to the current trek movies.
We could have had something like star wars with spin off movies about the other trek series + a tv series.. it would really help build an even more solid new fanbase and give people something in between the movies, but I don't see something like that happening any time soon because there are too many conflicting interests when it comes to trek.

 

[pst]

I think the (c) business when it comes to tv trek and movie verse trek is more complext than that and might, unfortunately, be the biggest hindrance trek has right now compared to other franchises.

Technically, I see no reason why Discovery couldn't be set in the kelvin timeline as long as it isn't about Kirk&Co (hence deleting the 'coordinating around any potential new movies' issue) . In many ways, it would have given the writers way more creative freedom too. I don't object to Spock having a human step sister like some do, for example, but even I recognize it would have been more fitting if this had been one of the different things happening in the alternate timeline. By ostensibly making the series into prime trek they are, inevitably, retconning 50 years of canon adding stuff that can potentially conflict with what has been established already. I'd honestly feel more limited. While with the kelvin timeline, it's an alternate reality so, in a sense, you are compelled to show the differences.

From a marketing perspective, since they are always going after the general audience more than the old fans, it would be far more convenient for them to make a new series that takes advantage of the popularity the reboot, the current trek the general audience is consuming, than get back to prime trek, especially if they want to capture the interest of the people who made the reboot successful and that would, probably, be more willing to give Discovery a chance if it was linked to the current trek movies.
We could have had something like star wars with spin off movies about the other trek series + a tv series.. it would really help build an even more solid new fanbase and give people something in between the movies, but I don't see something like that happening any time soon because there are too many conflicting interests when it comes to trek.

this is a dead horse i've been beating here for a while. but this recent quote by producer aaron harberts definitely hammers home the mistake of setting discovery in the prime universe:

"The only thing that’s felt limiting is the era and time that we are telling our story, because you’ve got ‘Enterprise’…

I find that ‘Enterprise actually’ has made things the most limiting, because of some of the retconning that they did in certain ways. And we consider Enterprise canon as well in certain ways, and just as valid, and we’re always trying to kind of make sure that that’s taken into consideration."

they had a clean slate in the kelvin timeline to mostly tell the stories they wanted and make the production design look how they wanted it, but opted for the prime universe because of... corporate politics? appeal to diehards turned off by the abrams films? idk

 

[Malaika]

this is a dead horse i've been beating here for a while. but this recent quote by producer aaron harberts definitely hammers home the mistake of setting discovery in the prime universe:

"The only thing that’s felt limiting is the era and time that we are telling our story, because you’ve got ‘Enterprise’…

I find that ‘Enterprise actually’ has made things the most limiting, because of some of the retconning that they did in certain ways. And we consider Enterprise canon as well in certain ways, and just as valid, and we’re always trying to kind of make sure that that’s taken into consideration."

they had a clean slate in the kelvin timeline to mostly tell the stories they wanted and make the production design look how they wanted it, but opted for the prime universe because of... corporate politics? appeal to diehards turned off by the abrams films? idk

Corporate politics.
I doubt they wanted to appeal to Abrams haters since the show looks more similar to the kelvin timeline already and very different from tos (in fact those haters are already complaining ). For me it's obvious the show is made to, at least partially, cash on reboot fans.
Ironically, that's the opposite of what pegg&Co did in beyond while making a continuation OF the kelvin timeline, but this is another discussion.

 

[F. King Daniel]

The Kelvin movies established what modern Star Trek looks like. Of course stuff made after will resemble it. It's like how the Ben Affleck Batmobile has elements of Christian Bale's version.

You know what looks like 1960's Star Trek today? Fan films.

 

[plynch]

That's why I like them so much.

 

[Malaika]

The Kelvin movies established what modern Star Trek looks like. Of course stuff made after will resemble it. It's like how the Ben Affleck Batmobile has elements of Christian Bale's version.

You know what looks like 1960's Star Trek today? Fan films.

of course, a modern tv series can't look like one in the 60s. The reboot itself is influenced by contemporary sci-fi (as well as more contemporary theories about warp capable ships and time travel).
That said, there are definitely more similarities between Discovery and JJ's trek than just those modern looking sets and special effects, and the lens flares.
But then again, these things aren't mutually exclusive. It's both. On one hand, you can't make nowadays trek look like tos without that feeling outdated (and in that sense, trek isn't the first or last franchise that is influenced by context of time this way), at the same time it makes sense that a modern trek series will be more inspired by the current popular trek iteration they have, that also happens to be more contemporary, than tos.. regardless the timelines and characters used. And it makes sense they try to cash on the audience that made the reboot successful too.

for me, the timeline the show is placed in might be irrelevant in the sense of, I think, not being something explicit in the series saying that the events are happening in one parallel reality and not another. They could have made Discovery another reality too, they didn't need to address that at all.
However, by ostensibly making it into the prime timeline AND with the inclusion of Sarek, they are kind of painting themselves into a corner IMO. Perhaps they really loved the challenge of these choices, but adding to an established canon isn't simple and, invitably, when you are respecting it too much you are limting your creativity and the possibilities.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

You could have another deus ex machina allow for the preservation of everything, but that would kind of be cheesy and defeat the purpose of taking it away in the first place. Once these people get everything back, every sacrifice loses its meaning.

 

[publiusr]

A reset to the Prime universe would be a good last movie for Abrams series of movies--whenever that is.

 

[VOODOOXI]

I would have much preferred to see Orci’s movie than Beyond.

For starters Beyond wasn't very good. Yes, I know a lot of fanboys here claim to love this film, but it got lukewarm reviews from mainstream critics and was met with a collective yawn by general audiences. There was just nothing exceptional about it. It was just another film in another franchise.

The minute I heard Justin Lin (who seems like a nice guy and is a genuine fan of ST. I don’t want to make this about him personally) was directing, I thought we were going to get Fast and Furious in space...I was correct...Admittedly, Beyond had some great character moments, but for the most part it was just another stupid/loud action movie (Beastie Boys/Motorcycles/endless quick cut actions scenes) ST is better than that.

There was probably nothing wrong at all with Orci’s script at all. I actually thought his premise was great. It sounded thought provoking and was epic in nature.

The fact of the matter was that the suits at the studio saw Guardians of the Galaxy’s box office and wanted to turn ST into Guardians. The only complaint I heard about Orci’s script was that it was "too Star Trekkie”, WTF? I want Star Trek to be Star Trek not GOTG. Keep rap songs, motorcycles and non stop action in dopey movies like Fast and Furious. Again ST is too good for that.

Another thing that kind of irked me was that Beyond was in essence just a big budget episode of TOS. It didn’t really move the franchise forward in any meaningful way. Orci’s script on the other hand seemed to have major ramifications for the universe that was created in ST 09. It sounded epic, with a purpose behind it. It would have brought a meaningful sense of closure (I’m sure if it was a hit there would have been more films. There really is no closure in franchises that make $) to the series.

Not filming Orci’s script was a missed opportunity. Hopefully we will get to see it on screen someday.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

Unfortunately, if every (odd numbered alternate reality) movie keeps being about the big thing that began it all (the reality's creation), isn't it going to get old? You can keep character development threads going in a natural progression (Spock and Uhura love story, Spock's heritage, Kirk trying to prove himself, etc) but if the adventure these character moments are set against relates to the reality's existence and preservation/annihilation of same, it's going to become tedious. Shows can do that because time moves slower in them. Into Darkness took place 1 year after '09 ended (2258-2259) , while Beyond took place 4 years after Into Darkness. (2263) Assuming film 4 takes place 1-2 years after Beyond, why are we still trying to fight for the universe's right to exist?

 

[MakeshiftPython]

If a good yarn is told, I couldn't care less whether it's Prime or Kelvin. Story is more important to than trying to prolong a specific timeline/franchise.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I would have much preferred to see Orci’s movie than Beyond.

For starters Beyond wasn't very good. Yes, I know a lot of fanboys here claim to love this film, but it got lukewarm reviews from mainstream critics and was met with a collective yawn by general audiences. There was just nothing exceptional about it. It was just another film in another franchise.

The minute I heard Justin Lin (who seems like a nice guy and is a genuine fan of ST. I don’t want to make this about him personally) was directing, I thought we were going to get Fast and Furious in space...I was correct...Admittedly, Beyond had some great character moments, but for the most part it was just another stupid/loud action movie (Beastie Boys/Motorcycles/endless quick cut actions scenes) ST is better than that.

There was probably nothing wrong at all with Orci’s script at all. I actually thought his premise was great. It sounded thought provoking and was epic in nature.

The fact of the matter was that the suits at the studio saw Guardians of the Galaxy’s box office and wanted to turn ST into Guardians. The only complaint I heard about Orci’s script was that it was "too Star Trekkie”, WTF? I want Star Trek to be Star Trek not GOTG. Keep rap songs, motorcycles and non stop action in dopey movies like Fast and Furious. Again ST is too good for that.

Another thing that kind of irked me was that Beyond was in essence just a big budget episode of TOS. It didn’t really move the franchise forward in any meaningful way. Orci’s script on the other hand seemed to have major ramifications for the universe that was created in ST 09. It sounded epic, with a purpose behind it. It would have brought a meaningful sense of closure (I’m sure if it was a hit there would have been more films. There really is no closure in franchises that make $) to the series.

Not filming Orci’s script was a missed opportunity. Hopefully we will get to see it on screen someday.

Agree with everything you said

 

[ScottJ85]

Wow - I just remembered I was prepared to hate ST Beyond, thought it would be a disaster and had no faith in Lin.

Turned out I loved it!

I really liked him too. There aren't many directors who can effortlessly balance modern action film conventions with respect for the Star Trek material.

I mean, Abrams did well with it but Lin did it better in my opinion.