How? They were split up when the Enterprise was destroyed, but what makes you think they're not friends?
never said that. Their dynamic (that, mind you, isn't even my fav thing of the reboot because I'm the first to criticize how aspects of it are forced) was - along with S/U and the new trio with Uhura-, the core of the first movies even to the point of getting
forced. The most talked about (and asked about) things by critics and the press were those dynamics.. and then you get a movie where it's all, suddenly, mostly ignored.
I'm all for focusing a tad less on their duo, make their dynamic more realistic and less 'destined to be besties' stuff, and have more an ensemble... but Pegg saying that their dynamic was forced in the first movies and that it relied too much on the old thing, only for him to essentially replace that bromance with another forced by tos 'homage' bromance seems a bit hypocritical. I get that he thought Kirk and Spock became best friends too soon, but I don't find Spock/Bones any less baseless in that sense.
and at least Kirk and Spock were actually allowed to interact, truly interact, with other characters too in the first movies. In Beyond, Spock and Bones are stuck with each other the whole movie, even when they finally reunited with the group.
This makes me also remember another point that I almost forgot to mention in my list of things Lin ignored: the reboot making Spock an equal protagonist with Kirk.
Beyond is back to treating Kirk as the only lead and the only one allowed to interact with most of the characters, while Spock and McCoy are his besties who argue with each other. Spock got more or less demoted in Beyond. He didn't even interact with the villain, he just exists to essentially give Urban more screentime. Nothing against Urban or McCoy in theory, but between 'nothing' and 'all' there is a middle and some balance you can at least try to achieve.
This honestly was an aspect that I was worried about when reading some of Lin's interviews before watching the movie because he never really talked about Spock and his personal arc, he only mentioned him being the devil to McCoy's angel at Kirk's side.. which isn't even something true to the reboot and, already, told me he either hadn't watched the reboot or had strongly misuranderstood the dynamic that the creative team had actually created and thus the fact that these characters don't have the 'roles' their tos counterparts have.
Bottom line is, as a fan of the first movies I really felt alienated by the new creative team. It's like they wanted me to pretend that the first movies were another thing.. it was puzzling, disehearting.
I didn't even want to watch Beyond.
and to be honest, I'm not the only one. I know more than one person who loved the first movies but they didn't even know they were making another, and when they heard stuff about it they weren't super excited.
Everyone was split up? Kirk with Chekov, Spock with McCoy and Uhura with Sulu and the other survivors. After that they're all together on the Franklin.
are you really
trying to deny the fact that Beyond tried to restore the old trio dynamic at the expense of the new dynamics with Uhura that JJ created?
This is particularly rich when most of reboot complainers who whined that 'Uhura replaced McCoy' love Beyond precisely because of them 'finally' making it 'rightfully' back to the original trio dynamic and ditching the 'silly Uhura stuff' (I saw that kind of comment even in this board^)
More than a fan and critic also lamented that Uhura got sidelined here.
I may also remind you that while Zoe was third lead for the first movies, in Beyond Karl Urban got the third top billing spot.
The Kirk/Uhura building friendship from the first movies is nonexistent saved for her saving him at the beginning. Kirk/Uhura/Spock have, basically, no scene together (aside from the one where Uhura translates Spock for Kirk) and worst of it all Uhura isn't even
allowed to have a single (one) scene where she can talk about her feelings for Spock and show her perspective. You only hear McCoy, someone who has nothing to do with them, comment that maybe she was 'upset', but the person who actually is part of that relationship has her feelings completely erased by the narrative (and so were Sulu's feelings for his family, btw, since they cut the only moment where him and Uhura were supposed to bond over their mutual worry for their loved ones) so that the bros are the only ones who can emote on screen and bond with each other. Both break up and reconciliation are only implied, the narrative doesn't even let them have a real moment when they finally see each other again after thinking the other was maybe dead, because Lin is too busy getting to the next action scene asap and
of course we can't lose screentime for stupid stuff such as the interpersonal relationships and the characters having feelings. Look at Kirk on his motorcycle, isn't that cool? cool. (I'm not saying that JJ's movies weren't also heavy on the action scenes. But he has some storyteller skills that Lin doesn't, honestly, have. Lin cut scenes about the interpersonal relationships, JJ ADDED them)
Sure, the movie ends up being a 'Spock loves Uhura' fest may be refreshing in the sense of reversing of roles compared to what hollywood usually does with romance. However, this doesn't mean I'm supposed to ignore the fact that the female character isn't allowed to the same agency she had in the other movies, and she has her own relationships sidelined, for the most part, to focus on bromance more. There are always ulterior motives so I can appreciate one aspect, but also be critical about another. Maybe some faux feminists are happy to see women getting excluded from the interpersonal relationships narrative, and see them reduced to a 'strong and independent' stereotype so that the dudes are the only ones allowed to experience relationships on screen and talk about their feelings, but I don't think this kind of writing treats women as humans and I'm honestly really sick of female characters getting called 'weak' or criticized for stuff that the male characters are praised for.
but I think you're mistaking a new director deliberately making his movie stand apart from the prior ones
he could have done that without ignoring the first movies to the extent he did. The new creative team was, after all, still hired to make a continuation of the other movies and it's reasonable to believe that most of the audience that had loved the first movies would, naturally, expect the one that could possibly conclude the trilogy to further be a continuation and further expand on the plot elements established by the first movies, not gloss over them.
I can't shake the feeling that in the end we didn't really get a real trilogy (especially not one like the current star wars and guardians of the galaxy franchises where you know the writers have a plan) and if everything ends with Beyond, it feels like things are left incomplete and unfinalized. That's part of the reason why I wish we could get at least one more movie, made by someone who loved the first ones and these characters, that can end with a more positive note and show more evolution for the characters.
It's such a waste and sad because this trek could have been so much, there was just so much they could have done with these characters and I can't for the life of me understand how someone could be so uninspired (and make nostalgia such a hindrance when it really didn't need to be and it isn't for other franchises)
and showing us the characters in previously-unseen combinations
but Spock doesn't get to interact with Sulu or Chekov or Scotty and neither does McCoy. You just got old trio stuff that might seem 'new' to the reboot, but it's 50 years old for the whole franchise so, honestly, calling the nostalgia 'new' is like a bit of a joke to me especially when giving attention to those old dynamics came at the expense of the actually new things JJ had in the first movies AND even the 'new' dynamics you see in this movie.
Sorry but it seems like using nostalgia as an excuse to essentially keep trek in the past and not really allow the writers to do new things.
The only real dynamic were: Scotty/Jaylah, where Pegg essentially gave himself more screentime thank to the new character; Sulu/Uhura, that wasn't even developed as a dynamic and thus comes across as being a 'pair the spares' thing resulting from them, more than anything, finding a pretext to keep Uhura away from Kirk and Spock so that Mccoy and Scotty could interact with them more; Kirk/Chekov, not super developed either.
IMO he just didn't want to show us more of the same characters in the same combinations wrestling with the same issues that we've already seen in ST'09 and ID. In Beyond, I saw slightly matured versions of the same characters (not acting out of character at all) in new situations.
but their issues are more or less the same, they have no real evolution. 3 years later, Spock suddenly remembers he has survivor guilt and he wants to help the vulcans and, again, instead of further developing his personal life and relationship with Uhura, they sidelined her/him/them with a break up storyline that makes little sense from the perspective of them being a pair since 6 years, and after everything they already went through together in stid. He's once again reduced to being mostly Kirk's friend who argues with his other friend. There is so much more they could do with that new relationship and with him being part vulcan. Instead of really developing Spock's conflict, they only use it as a pretext to focus on bromance again (kirk/spock, kirk/bones, spock/bones, scotty/kirk ...clearly bromance is never enough and we absolutely need even more, and always with the same 3 characters mind you) and essentially placate that side of the fandom who can't accept change and felt insecure that bromance and the old trio weren't the be all end of all of JJ's trek. It's so lame.
And it's also lame they kind of erase Spock being half human and make him (and McCoy too) come across as a bit stupid honestly because, let's be honest, it's not like the vulcans are waiting for him to be their n.1 'chosen one' who will save their species (and even if he were asked to be a sperm donor like all the survivors - which makes sense -, he wouldn't need to leave the ship and give up about the woman he loves) If the vulcans were to consider his offspring with Uhura 'useless' in terms of continuing the vulcan legacy just because they'd be part human (which is, honestly, a pretty racist thing to imply especially for the inevitable parallel with mixed people in real life, as Spock allegorically was one for Roddenberry&co), I don't see how they'd consider his kids with a vulcan more 'useful' when they too would, inevitably, be part human because HE IS. The main fallacy here is whether you assume the vulcans only want 'pure vulcan' kids or if they don't have issues with mixing their dna with human one, in either case the writers painted themselves into a corner because Spock is half human himself.
enjoyable movie, Beyond, as long as you don't pay too much attention to some 'details' and your expectations are low.
