Spoilers Robert Meyer Burnett: "Terra Firma" will ruin Trek canon

[Nerys Myk]

They're canon.

One fan's idea of "soul" is not necessarily another's.

And while DSC may have gone down an aesthetic route I generally disagree with there's little to nothing in the actual writing that would make me yearn to decanonize something or declare that it never was canon to begin with.

Next?

Trek with soul has to have Carl

 

[Odo]

I second @Kelso's sentiments.

It's not hating the show, or saying it's canon or not canon, or saying it's not true to Star Trek that bothered me. It's the fact that, because you did not like something, you publicly posted spoilers for it.

 

[Campe]

Oh, we’re still talking about this?

 

[Tuskin38]

, which is almost not at all.

You'd be wrong. They follow it pretty close.

uh, I mean “spoiler” is I thought from the 29thC on they have time ships and telporters and pods, etc, etc. Why would they need the Gaurdian?

If you watch Season 3 you'd know why.

 

[Mark 2000]

You'd be wrong. They follow it pretty close.

Well, I’m convinced now,

If you watch Season 3 you'd know why.

I have been watching it, though not closely because it’s been mostly disjointed and dull, with a few tantalizing high points. I would be grateful if you could inform me what I missed.

 

[cooleddie74]

This discussion will contain more Fail than protomatter in the Genesis Device.

 

[ScottJ85]

It's old news but the Borg in VOY sucked, and had nothing to do with who was the captain.

That just got me thinking about how Kirk would have handled the Borg. Probably by taking down stuntmen in grey body paint and Christmas lights with two-fisted punches, seducing the Borg Queen and talking the Collective into a logical contradiction.

 

[Tuskin38]

though not closely because it’s been mostly disjointed and dull,

So why keep torturing yourself?

 

[The Wormhole]

I would be grateful if you could inform me what I missed.

Basically the Federation and its allies outlawed time travel in the aftermath of the Temporal Cold War and destroyed all their timeships and other means of time travel.

 

[Mark 2000]

So why keep torturing yourself?

It’s not torture. I like some of it as I said and it’s something to do once a week in a world of binge watching. I like weekly event tv. Why bother talking to me if you’re just going to ignore my questions in favor of being snide? Is that something you enjoy?

Basically the Federati

I would assume someone’s got records of how to rebuild them and laws can be changed. Seems handwavey to me. But this is the problem I talked about in another post of trying to continue baggage canon.

 

[kirk55555]

Basically the Federation and its allies outlawed time travel in the aftermath of the Temporal Cold War and destroyed all their timeships and other means of time travel.

I completely abandoned STD this season, but can't they still slingshot around the sun? Since the USS Discovery presumably can still use its warp drive, they can travel in time with impunity.

Yes, I know that Spock's slingshot time travel wasn't invented during discovery's original time, but Burnham in Discovery can basically do anything the writers feel like, so I'm sure she could whip up a time travel formula straight out of her rectum even if it made no sense. Hell, they can even just find some record of his time travel formula somewhere.

That said, I'm morbidly curious how this show can destroy Star Trek even more. It's literally made the rest of the franchise obsolete by showing that the Federation Falls to Absolute bulshit, what more can it do? The only thing it could do is, through time travel shenanigans, eliminate the entire franchise history, but the reboot movies already did that, it would just mean Discovery is in its own universe.

But, this is Discovery. It will always find the way to be the absolute worst. That's what happens when literally everyone involved hates the franchise.

 

[Mudd]

...there's not much evidence the modern shows are at all canonical.

This betrays a lack of understanding of the relevant meaning of the term "canonical" here.

All you're saying is that the shows aren't to your taste. You don't have a vote on "canon."

 

[ITDUDE]

Greetings.
Tough crowd here. I'm certainly happy to answer any questions you all may have. As always, I promise my responses will be courteous and respectful.

You won’t get a fair and non-biased discussion here. Your responses may be courteous, but the questions from the folks here won’t be. This thread is 15 pages of one-sided opinions. It’s like being a Republican in California. You better stay quiet and take the heat, if you speak up, you’ll get crucified.

There are few of us here that are critical, but we have to pick our battles. Saying things like, canon this, prime that, continuity this, that or the other, may trigger some “fans” faster that showing a raw steak to a veagan.

 

[Lord Garth]

I completely abandoned STD this season, but can't they still slingshot around the sun? Since the USS Discovery presumably can still use its warp drive, they can travel in time with impunity.

Yes, I know that Spock's slingshot time travel wasn't invented during discovery's original time, but Burnham in Discovery can basically do anything the writers feel like, so I'm sure she could whip up a time travel formula straight out of her rectum even if it made no sense. Hell, they can even just find some record of his time travel formula somewhere.

That said, I'm morbidly curious how this show can destroy Star Trek even more. It's literally made the rest of the franchise obsolete by showing that the Federation Falls to Absolute bulshit, what more can it do? The only thing it could do is, through time travel shenanigans, eliminate the entire franchise history, but the reboot movies already did that, it would just mean Discovery is in its own universe.

But, this is Discovery. It will always find the way to be the absolute worst. That's what happens when literally everyone involved hates the franchise.

Kristen Beyer definitely "hates" the franchise.

At least try to go for reasonable criticisms.

 

[kirk55555]

Kristen Beyer definitely hates the franchise.

At least try to go for reasonable criticisms.

literally everything the show has done in season 3 it's a giant fuck you to the fans and everyone who's ever worked on the franchise. It's all because Alex kurtzman wants to make his own show, so fuck everyone else. From the recurring problems of changing alien designs for no reason to literally just throwing out the entire Federation, it has to be active malevolence from him at this point. You can't make Star Trek this bad on accident, even Enterprise at its worst was still Star Trek, this is just a bad sci fi show that stole the name.

 

[Lord Garth]

I think much of the problem with Star Trek from 2009 onward stems from the fact it's designed to NOT be canonical with the previous iterations of TREK. The Kelvin timeline was established specifically to free the franchise from canonical storytelling. So...to answer your question, yes, I don't consider any of the current iterations of TREK to be canonical. The Rick Berman era of the franchise...18 years and 25 seasons of Trek, began with Berman working directly with Roddenberry, and even after Roddenberry's death in 1991 up through the end of ENTERPRISE, he was trying to maintain the ethos established way back in the original series. The current stewards of the franchise don't have that connection to the "soul" of the franchise, and aside from paying lip-service to canon, there's not much evidence the modern shows are at all canonical.

Then it sounds like you wouldn't have accepted Post-Berman Star Trek no matter who was in charge of it. What makes you think Axanar is any more in touch with the "soul" of Star Trek? Did you work directly under Gene Roddenberry? No, you didn't. In fact, "Whom Gods Destroy", where the Garth character came from, is from the third season of TOS, when Gene Roddeberry stepped back.

Do you reject TWOK-TUC since Harve Bennett and Nick Meyer disregarded Gene Roddenberry?

Can you tell me with a straight face that you honestly think Gene Roddenberry would've approved of DS9, especially when it got to the Dominion War?

 

[Nerys Myk]

literally everything the show has done in season 3 it's a giant fuck you to the fans and everyone who's ever worked on the franchise. It's all because Alex kurtzman wants to make his own show, so fuck everyone else. From the recurring problems of changing alien designs for no reason to literally just throwing out the entire Federation, it has to be active malevolence from him at this point. You can't make Star Trek this bad on accident, even Enterprise at its worst was still Star Trek, this is just a bad sci fi show that stole the name.

You're hilarious

 

[Nyotarules]

it's a giant fuck you to the fans

Not the fans, some fans. We do not all like the same kinds of Trek.

 

[Nerys Myk]

It’s like being a Republican in California. You better stay quiet and take the heat, if you speak up, you’ll get crucified.

Depend on where in California you are. Where I live, you get re-elected for decades.

 

[cooleddie74]

If it's Kevin McCarthy's Congressional District you keep your job for years despite being unentertaining and having no discernible talent. If that's not California and Showbiz I don't know what is.