Robert Beltran says the Prime Directive is 'fascist crap'

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by The Overlord, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't find any murderer "less guilty" than the others. I just stated that Communism has the worst records of all and gets away too easy when things like these are discussed.
     
  2. locutus101

    locutus101 Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I disagree in many occasions like in Homeward, Picard was perfectly fine with letting people die without lifting a finger to help them. Hell, he even berated data for waking up the 20th century people! Regardless of the fact that NO directive had told him that it was the right thing to do.
     
  3. Triskelion

    Triskelion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I rather think the point Lynx was making wasn't that killing was in any degree acceptable or forgiveable on any of their parts; but that Communist Mao killed more than all of them combined. Happy Wal Mart run.


    EDIT: Oh, Lynx beat me to it.
     
  4. locutus101

    locutus101 Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think it's a bit simplistic to say that "communism" is responsible for those deaths. Christianity is similarly responsible for countless massacres and so are the republics, the different democracies and whatnot. The truth is that when these things occur there is always the exact same type of political regime, IE one ruthless dictator and every one else at risk of being his next victim. Hitler put to death his closest allies with the same ruthlessness as he did his most ardent enemies.
     
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  5. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    On a planetary scale, wouldn't it just be normal Darwinism?
     
  6. locutus101

    locutus101 Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Darwinism has nothing to do with a political doctrine. It's a scientific theory and nothing else.
     
  7. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, too many people don't seem to get that evolution is a random thing that has no final grand end point.
     
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  8. LJones41

    LJones41 Commodore Commodore

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    Tom Paris has expressed contempt toward the Prime Directive on many occasions on the show.

    By the way, Ian Malcom of "Jurassic Park" would disagree with Beltran. And I would agree with Malcolm.
     
  9. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    Oh I see, You are saying that the Federation not getting involved is Social Darwinism. I was talking about the predicament the planet get themselves into (or not like an asteroid) to warrant intervention, my mistake.
     
  10. Triskelion

    Triskelion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Nope."
     
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  11. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Have you read about Stalin? How he murdered his closest allies and friends. He actually beats Hitler there when it comes to being ruthless.

    There are many ideologies responisble for genocide but still the Communists has the worst numbers.

    Everyone who might question this should read Solzhenitsyn's books about GuLAG.
     
  12. locutus101

    locutus101 Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Exactly!
     
  13. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But not in the Star Trek universe, where the development of intelligent beings isn't through evolution, but the result of pre-destiny, planning and intent.
     
  14. locutus101

    locutus101 Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If you want to hold doctrines responsible for massacres instead of dictators then congratulations because you're thinking exactly like a stereotypical communist. You believe that it's the environment that's responsible for the crimes and not the individual. You believe that guns kill people and not people.

    It's rather ironic that you're so keen in denouncing an ideology that you're adopting unconsciously its stereotypes as your own in order to attack it.

    Nietzsche said: "He who fights too long against dragons becomes a dragon himself"

    That sounds quite about right.
     
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  15. locutus101

    locutus101 Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hell yep.
     
  16. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Please, don't put words in my mouth that I never said or wrote. I'm just stating the obvious, that Communism has the worst murder rate of all ideologies.
     
  17. locutus101

    locutus101 Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I said that you hold doctrines responsible for murdering people and not people and that's exactly what you did IN THIS VERY POST THAT I AM QUOTING!!!

    Communism has no murder rate at all, for the simple reason that Communism NEVER HAPPENED! Had you read Karl Marx instead of basing your conclusions on some third hand hater opinion, you would have known that the state that Marx describes as communist has never been even attempted. How can you say that a political regime is responsible for anything when that regime doesn't even exist?

    Regardless of that you do exactly what I said you did. You accuse doctrines instead of individuals. You are a collectivist at the very least and you adopt the logic of a marxist. You're a walking irony.
     
  18. WB2

    WB2 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    It's not fascist crap. Play with the idea that some aliens had helped the neanderthal human survive and the sapiens would never have developed. That Starfleet should help everyone is much more aking to communism.
     
  19. locutus101

    locutus101 Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So you're saying that Communism is about helping people then. Interesting...

    I don't think that helping the Neanderthal would have caused the homo sapiens to disappear. The Neanderthal were clearly inferior to the homo sapiens. Their tools and their hunting practices were much less elaborate and much less efficient and they needed much more energy than (basically) us, I've read that their daily caloric intake needed to be one and a half times ours but their hunting skills were less developed.

    The result is obvious, they just couldn't compete. Helping them wouldn't have changed much. In fact nothing short of exterminating the homo sapiens could have saved the Neanderthals.
     
  20. urbandefault

    urbandefault Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Prime Directive is nothing more than a plot device to be rolled out whenever it's convenient.
     
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