Robau, "Middle-Eastern descent"
- Thread starter urbandk
- Start date
I think it's not the Pakistani actor Tahir who wishes to conflate the Middle East with Pakistan but rather the interviewer and, if I may make a generalization, the wider public who perceive someone who has a Muslim name as Middle-Eastern.
In any event, the point of this post was not intially to debate labels but to consider the impact of Star Trek on equality and justice. My initial question was, in effect, does focusing on the ethnicity of someone included mar the benefit of his/her inclusion?
In any event, the point of this post was not intially to debate labels but to consider the impact of Star Trek on equality and justice. My initial question was, in effect, does focusing on the ethnicity of someone included mar the benefit of his/her inclusion?
I apologize for being straightforward, but isn't this merely an AMERICAN problem? 'Old Europeans' (Paging Mister Rumsfeld! Paging Mister Rumsfeld!) usually don't make much fuzz about such minor matters...
It both is and isn't, depending from what standpoint you happen to be looking. In a number of ways, it straddles a boundary (if such a thing can be said to exist at all) between the Middle East and South Asia, possessing characteristics of both. Too, the definition of the term "Middle East" has always tended to be somewhat fluid, often including Pakistan when it was convenient to do so.So, uh, Tahir thinks HE himself (not the character) is of Middle-Eastern descent? Does he not know that Pakistan is not in the "middle east"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East#Etymology
But anyway, the role isn't supposed to be about that.
My understanding has been that the "Middle East" stops at the eastern border of Iraq, and is coterminous with the predominance of Arab culture and Arabic language, as opposed to Persians: Iranians, and many Pakistanis too, I think. Many contend that the term "Middle East" itself is too Anglo-centric, and prefer to call it Southwest Asia.
Dude, on the contrary, I think issues of ethnicity, religion, and national identity are pervasive throughout Europe. To your south, you have the Schweizerische Volkspartei. In France, the case of Rachida Dati is illustrative of the lasting power of ethnic identity in national politics (c.f. "The Rise and Fall of Rachida Dati")... anyhow, you get the idea
Exactly. And based on that fact I'd contend his Cuban-ness is probably more salient than his ancestry, depending on the extent to which his parents acculturated him with their ethnic traditions and the extent to which they're integrated into Cuban culture. Of course, it's a good question how distinctive Cuban culture, or that of any other geographic/ethnic/linguistic culture, would be in the 23rd Century.
Yes, immediately popping into my mind were things like the banning of Muslim headscarfs in French public schools and other prohibitions on religious self-expression informed by xenophobic paranoia.
The point I had intended to make is that the term does not have one universally-accepted meaning; it means different things in different contexts and different disciplines, many of them significantly different from the meaning it carries in today's popular news media.
I really don't want to get bogged down in this tangent, though, and I would particularly like to dispense immediately with any political freight not directly relating to Trek, this movie and the character of Captain Robau. There are other forums for that sort of thing.
Do you mean our focus on his ethnicity, or references to its relevance in the story? I assume you mean the former. Discussing the significance of his protagonist leadership role, and the statement it makes for us in the here and now, is healthy. That his ethnicity isn't an issue in the 23rd century makes the statement, but we most acknowledge that his ethnicity IS relevant today in a deleterious way, in which far too many ignorant people stereotype on the basis of ethnocentric ideology. By the 23rd Century presumably---and hopefully---ethnic consciousness as an overriding or predominant means of individual and/or group identity (at the expense of a humanistic identity and even beyond that, an all-encompassing common identity based on sentience: from "where no man has gone" to "where no ONE has gone before") is dead and buried in the ash heap of history. In a word, nationalism is what would thankfully be dead and buried. But we don't progress from here to there without dialogue that relates Trek's progressive future to our current reality.
Failing to address the actual LACK of color-blindness today by denying the significance of the contemporary contrast with the future ideal of Rabau---by pretending we're in a color-blind society today or that we don't notice the contemporary significance---only serves to perpetuate ethnocentricity by ignoring it. To ignore it is not to reject it. On the contrary, in practice, to ignore it is to deny it exists, when what we ought to do is be conscious of it in order to struggle against it head-on. Trek is always criticizing our contemporary society, either implicitly or explicitly, in one way or another. Uhura as bridge officer absent any racial context in the story was a statement unto itself, but one so important that MLK, Jr. pleaded with Nichelle Nichols not to leave the series early.
Take a very different example, the TOS Cloud Miners. This contrasted 23rd century human socio-economic relations with our current ones (allegorically through the relations between the cloud city and the miners). Denying the significance of class and caste as perpetuated through successive generations would not, and has not, solved the problems of social stratification, disparity, and exploitation. Neither would denying Robau's significance get us closer to abolishing racial stratification.
I will follow the sage advice of our moderator and refrain from further politically-inclined discussions...
It seems that the main problem is not xenophobia as such, but the depiction of the alleged xenophobia of some countries in the uneducated mass media of other countries. I just remember being confronted with the image of the jackboot-wearing genocidal Nazi MY ENTIRE LIFE, just because I was born in Germany, thank you very much...
The inclusion of Iran in most courses on "the Middle East" owes much to the fact that Shi'ite Islam is centred there and its influence is significant in the rest of the Middle East.It both is and isn't, depending from what standpoint you happen to be looking. In a number of ways, it straddles a boundary (if such a thing can be said to exist at all) between the Middle East and South Asia, possessing characteristics of both. Too, the definition of the term "Middle East" has always tended to be somewhat fluid, often including Pakistan when it was convenient to do so.So, uh, Tahir thinks HE himself (not the character) is of Middle-Eastern descent? Does he not know that Pakistan is not in the "middle east"?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East#Etymology
But anyway, the role isn't supposed to be about that.
My understanding has been that the "Middle East" stops at the eastern border of Iraq, and is coterminous with the predominance of Arab culture and Arabic language, as opposed to Persians: Iranians, and many Pakistanis too, I think. Many contend that the term "Middle East" itself is too Anglo-centric, and prefer to call it Southwest Asia.
Points well taken. I think the allegorical episodes were among the strongest in Star Trek, and it's fascinating to note how far Klingons have deviated from possible Soviet inspirations and Romulans from Chinese.
I guess I just wince sometimes when people are asked questions like, "How does it feel to be the first [insert religious/racial/national term] ever to be in this kind of role?"
It seems at times to essentialize that actor and his/her role.
It may make you wince, but until such things are seen as unexceptional, the questions will ALWAYS be asked. I'm afraid we are still a long ways away from the day when those questions will not arise. When that day comes, entertainment may no longer feel compelled to tackle (in however simple or complex terms individual examples present), like Star Trek, the kinds of issues that make for such questions in the first place.
So, let me see if I understand this. One of Tahir's friends pointed out something online that just consisted of 500 people gaping and saying "someone fromt the Middle East is a captain."? One can hope said friend finds our Captain Robau thread and shows that to him. I imagine he'd get a kick out of it.
The media is belaboring the point? No shit Sherlock? Kidding, I hear ya my friend. The media gets stories like Jerry Springer gets guests. Yes, they belabor the point! Until the story dies, ...
It's great to see a character like Capt. Robau. TOS had a few Eastern characters, from Khan to random Hindo navigator woman, etc. TOS was, I'd argue, even more diverse than some modern Trek shows. And so it should be, that's a solid part of Trek. Always has been, ever shall be.
