Heh, for a second there I had a flashback to a similar discussion about Yahtzee Croshaw's ability to review videogames.
RLM finally did it / Plinkett reviews Star Trek
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I don't think he calculates to annoy. Those two points are good ones, and essentially from the same view: that too much of something waters down the experience. Now, I disagree with his gripe on Parallels, because the "home" reality still has value, and is arguably not lessened by other universes. Getting "home" means that much more and indeed was the quest that "the Dad from that 70's show" was on in VOY.
But I agree with his point about the Dominion War. Note he's not disagreeing with the war arc itself, but with going from occasional, naval-like starship battles to wasting Galaxy class ships left and right. I enjoyed those battle scenes, and they were technically awesome, but I see the point. The point is less is more. I can re-imagine some of those battles with, say, only 6 Federation starships. You can do the same battle, but every ship means something, every loss has impact.
I was glad to see him draw all the parallels between STXI and NEM, and his reasons for why it worked in XI and not as well(or at all) in NEM are good.
But, I do disagree - for my 2 cents I don't think XI was really much better than NEM. All the kinds of things XI gets a pass on, NEM gets damned for.
The Plinkett reviews are a lot of fun, usually spot-on, but they don't diminish my own guilty pleasure in the various Trek films. And I am guilty as sin.
Exactly (re: the war) I mean they were going through Galaxies, Excelsiors and other starships left and right like they were just pieces of junk and not the half-mile long, 40+-story tall hunks of technological power that they really were.
The War stuff was well done on a technichal leve for the time but the idea that Starfleet just had scores of starships laying around to make all of these huge armada battles is just absurd. Even more absurd they had so many ships, materials to build ships or could build ships so fast that it really didn't matter how many times they lost them. Oh, the Miranda-class Majestic was destroyed again? Eh, we'll just make another one. Throw it in there with the our fleet of six galaxy-class starships.
Trek, for me, was better in the TNG days when there were only a handful of Galaxy-classes in the entire fleet. Not a handful of them per amada battle!
The War stuff was well done on a technichal leve for the time but the idea that Starfleet just had scores of starships laying around to make all of these huge armada battles is just absurd. Even more absurd they had so many ships, materials to build ships or could build ships so fast that it really didn't matter how many times they lost them. Oh, the Miranda-class Majestic was destroyed again? Eh, we'll just make another one. Throw it in there with the our fleet of six galaxy-class starships.
Trek, for me, was better in the TNG days when there were only a handful of Galaxy-classes in the entire fleet. Not a handful of them per amada battle!
With half of Starfleet and the Klingon Imperial fleet getting completely decimated by Nero's Clawship of Doom, with lots of other explosions in between, I don't understand what his argument is about with DS9 ruinzing Star Trek 4 evur. A major conflict did not really compromise the ethos of the United Federation of Planets and Star Trek, and that was the whole point.
And the Klingon's Bird of Prey once imposing? Huh?! It was intended to be a light battle cruiser and not a mainline battleship, what made it impressive was its cloaking device which made it good for scouting, fleet support, and surprise attacks in enemy territory. It was never shown taking on ships of the line in a straight fight and was first shown taking out a dinky science survey ship. Starfleet was shown taking heavy losses long before DS9's Dominion War arc in "The Best of Both Worlds", although I agree that brinkmanship (often shown in TNG and early DS9) or the insinuation of a huge war around the main story is often better than showing big battles (like in "The Pale Moonlight" from DS9 and heck even "Dalek" from NuWho). But even the big battles from DS9 were rare and spaced apart.
There is no such thing as true destiny, we are insignificant in this reality anyway, and there are numerous theories of altenate realities. The concept of what ifs and could have beens was explored very well in "Parallels", it was legitimately one of Brannon Braga's best episodes. But this is coming from the same idiot who was confused by Palpatine's plans from The Phantom Menace. With such inane criticisms made I wonder why RedLetterMedia has gotten so popular in the last 12 months.
And the Klingon's Bird of Prey once imposing? Huh?! It was intended to be a light battle cruiser and not a mainline battleship, what made it impressive was its cloaking device which made it good for scouting, fleet support, and surprise attacks in enemy territory. It was never shown taking on ships of the line in a straight fight and was first shown taking out a dinky science survey ship. Starfleet was shown taking heavy losses long before DS9's Dominion War arc in "The Best of Both Worlds", although I agree that brinkmanship (often shown in TNG and early DS9) or the insinuation of a huge war around the main story is often better than showing big battles (like in "The Pale Moonlight" from DS9 and heck even "Dalek" from NuWho). But even the big battles from DS9 were rare and spaced apart.
There is no such thing as true destiny, we are insignificant in this reality anyway, and there are numerous theories of altenate realities. The concept of what ifs and could have beens was explored very well in "Parallels", it was legitimately one of Brannon Braga's best episodes. But this is coming from the same idiot who was confused by Palpatine's plans from The Phantom Menace. With such inane criticisms made I wonder why RedLetterMedia has gotten so popular in the last 12 months.
True, but there's method to the madness. XI revives TOS, which very often had a semi-goofy, rough-and-tumble feel with an adventurous and brash captain, whereas TNG's characters, Picard especially, are more contemplative. IIRC, he makes a similar point about First Contact, acknowledging that it's a good and exciting movie in its own right, while simultaneously crippling the Borg and not showing us much we hadn't seen before. A recurring complaint of his is that none of the TNG movies feel all that big or epic, something one certainly can't say of XI.
That said, unless the next movie is brainier and more substantive, I think a lot of us, Plinkett included, will be far less forgiving.
Cheseburgers are made of meat, cheese, various seasonings and on a bun, yet Five Guys makes a better cheeseburger than McDonalds.
That's reasonable, and actually to be fair, XI doesn't really get a pass on much. I liked it "for what it is" also. My main concern is that the "Star Wars mindset" as Plinkett calls it will continue, which is a bigger deal than any dune buggy, Klingon zit or previous film plot hole: it's a genre change. It means Star Trek will no longer be science fiction. As Shatner famously sang, I can't get behind that.
Which is about where I'm going with previous comment. Hopefully the 'brainer and more substative' will also have us coming back to more sci-FI in the mix. And an engine room with a warp core would sure be nice.
He pretty much nailed the way I felt about the movie. Great actioner. Not much in the way of sci-fi.
As to the more specific points people seem to be hung up on....
Parallels: His guff over that episode was that it essentially made any episode showing a parallel timeline was no longer something which was interesting or unique. Just another reality, another day, ho-hum.
Dominion War: His point was it effectively diminished the awe of any major battle. There's a reason Wolf 359 stood out...it made it seem like 39 ships and 11,000 personnel was a crippling blow to the Fleet. In the Dominion War, that much loss would likely read as an afterthought. It basically started the trend of inching more towards needing massive budgets to 'properly' show Trek. It helped move it from human driven action to effects driven action. Which he states Trek 09 is basically the culmination of, in effect.
As to the more specific points people seem to be hung up on....
Parallels: His guff over that episode was that it essentially made any episode showing a parallel timeline was no longer something which was interesting or unique. Just another reality, another day, ho-hum.
Dominion War: His point was it effectively diminished the awe of any major battle. There's a reason Wolf 359 stood out...it made it seem like 39 ships and 11,000 personnel was a crippling blow to the Fleet. In the Dominion War, that much loss would likely read as an afterthought. It basically started the trend of inching more towards needing massive budgets to 'properly' show Trek. It helped move it from human driven action to effects driven action. Which he states Trek 09 is basically the culmination of, in effect.
lol. well said.
You just don't like any internet Trek reviewers, do you?
This is where I'm standing right now. ST:09 was there to whet the appetites, bring in new blood, and attract a new audience. Fine and good and to do that the movie need to be a bit "light" in it's depths as to what "Trek is about."
The next movie should have a deeper connection to Trek's real meaning and roots. The first movie pulls you in, introduces you to the characters and has to have some-kind-of plot to give the characters something to do. All of that out of the way? In the second movie it's time to do some real Trek. A big, deep, story that tugs at the meaning of Trek and humanity.
This review has the best line I've heard in a movie review, a line even better than "two thumbs up.'
"When did the movie stop thinking for me?"
"When did the movie stop thinking for me?"
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Agreed. I thoroughly enjoyed ST09, and have seen it close to 100 times on Blu-ray, and I saw it 3 times in the theater. I love it, it's fun, exciting, bold, adventurous and fast paced. This next movie, I expect the smattering of sci-fi to dig much deeper. I don't think I'll be disappointed, but I will be watching and waiting.
I think they have to find something besides another villain to defeat. After a villain who destroyed Vulcan with its billions of inhabitants, any other villain would be either anticlimactic or absurd.
I usually enjoy RLM's review of movies mainly because the movies that are usually reviewed are just so absurd so I was a bit concerned this was going to go that route since I genuniely like ST09. It's what made me curious about watching TOS and all the movies with the original crew in them. A couple of criticisms did annoy me, though. The section about everyone have a case of the Notgays. Really, that wasn't essential to reviewing the movie as a whole and I'm getting tired of people making the connection that Sulu is gay because George Takei is gay. That's like saying a gay actor playing a straight character is now straight. It's not funny and it's immature.
ST09 is very fast and breezy. Having to introduce all the characters and trying to provide a little bit of a backstory for Kirk and Spock meant that certain Trek elements had to be sacrifice. What I'm hoping for the next movie is that now that the characters have been re-established, it will have a much more robust plotline. Kirk will have matured significantly. And yes, the engine room will look more like it should look like.
ST09 is very fast and breezy. Having to introduce all the characters and trying to provide a little bit of a backstory for Kirk and Spock meant that certain Trek elements had to be sacrifice. What I'm hoping for the next movie is that now that the characters have been re-established, it will have a much more robust plotline. Kirk will have matured significantly. And yes, the engine room will look more like it should look like.
Crap, I am late so most of the good stuff has been taken. I'll argue his point about the turbo-lift. Fair argument supported by nice graphics to make his point - yada yada yada.
I was never particularly impressed with the old, cannonized TL. What a piece of crap! Fortunately the story never called for someone to get somewhere in a hurry! Oh wait, I remember, Kirk once needed someone deep in the ship to get to the bridge on the double and what do you know, that person arrived seconds later. Speed of plot? Of course.
So why didn't ST09 just cheat, show Spock getting into the TL, cut, set to bridge, action, doors open, Spock emerges. Did they just overlook it? I don't think so. I think someone finally applied the logic; the ship has dampeners to keep people from flying backwards when the ship goes to warp, why wouldn't the same be possible for the TL?
By the way, I loved finally actually getting to see some NG era battle scenes. I was so sick and tired of always only just hearing about them. Even Wolf 359 was just a tease, imo.
I was never particularly impressed with the old, cannonized TL. What a piece of crap! Fortunately the story never called for someone to get somewhere in a hurry! Oh wait, I remember, Kirk once needed someone deep in the ship to get to the bridge on the double and what do you know, that person arrived seconds later. Speed of plot? Of course.
So why didn't ST09 just cheat, show Spock getting into the TL, cut, set to bridge, action, doors open, Spock emerges. Did they just overlook it? I don't think so. I think someone finally applied the logic; the ship has dampeners to keep people from flying backwards when the ship goes to warp, why wouldn't the same be possible for the TL?
By the way, I loved finally actually getting to see some NG era battle scenes. I was so sick and tired of always only just hearing about them. Even Wolf 359 was just a tease, imo.
Isn't the scene where Spock gets in the TL going up the bridge the first time we see the bridge? I think it was done for the "look at the shiny new bridge" effect. Could be wrong.
Interesting review. Maybe he toned down the psycho killer stuff because his opinions weren't really all that crazy. With a lot of the other movies he does, he nitpicks them to death, so it's only fitting that his role is that of a psychopathic shut-in.
It's kind of a strange double standard, actually. The movies he's criticized before weren't beyond criticism, but weren't exactly terrible either. I'd place a few of them as on par with ST09 (which is also not beyond criticism).
It's kind of a strange double standard, actually. The movies he's criticized before weren't beyond criticism, but weren't exactly terrible either. I'd place a few of them as on par with ST09 (which is also not beyond criticism).
The only battle that made the ships look weak was in tears of the prophets the best battle scene of Trek in sacrifice of angels. Handled the ships pretty well considering the scale.
I don't understand why people don't like the depicted size of starfleet. Space is vast and the federation has many members. To protect the federation and to go exploring they would need a lot of ships. They have the resources and the man power. Where's the problem?
I don't understand why people don't like the depicted size of starfleet. Space is vast and the federation has many members. To protect the federation and to go exploring they would need a lot of ships. They have the resources and the man power. Where's the problem?
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