"Rise": The utility of lying in a crisis...

[Darth Thanos]

Neelix: But, Sir. Since I've come aboard your Federation vessel, I've learned many Starfleet engineering principles from your crew! One of them being that as long as you keep inserting words such as 'quantum', 'matrix', 'alignment', 'triangulation' and 'encrypted' and other such words in any random order, whatever you come up with will actually work!

(sorry, couldn't resist). And yes, I think he should have been open to Tuvok from the start, despite his enthusiasm. As Tuvok is the one in command and therefore the one who would decide, he should be in possession of all the relevant facts.

You forgot one

 

[Timewalker]

Just that Rise is 6 episodes after Fair Trade. 6 weeks is a guess.

Given that they (general "they" who write scripts) don't just do one at a time and there are several scripts in various stages of being worked on at the same time and aren't necessarily aired in the same order that they're finished, it's possible that this was a case of that one detail of Neelix' character development being overlooked.

Of course some people can have issues with character flaws. But Voyager doesn't take place inside Picard's Bubble of Perfection. People aren't expected to be perfect there, 5 minutes after they've been "taught the lesson".

 

[Ragitsu]

Twenty-odd episodes per season and fifty-two weeks in a year? Yeah...chances are, there isn't always exactly one week of actual "Voyager time" between each episode.

Yes, he should!

He should have told Tuvok from the start that he only had experience of models, not "the real thing".
If he had done that, he wouldn't have looked like an idiot when it all was revealed.

But one of Neelix's problems was that he was so eager to please and show his imporance to the crew that he often exaggerated his skills and knowledge of the Delta Quadrant.

Question: had Tuvok been given the full skinny, would he have shared that information with the others?

 

[XweAponX]

According to my calculations, the events in Fair Trade took place at Stardate 50450 (Thursday 14 June 2373) and the events in Rise took place at Stardate 50732.4 (Monday 17 September).

Please visit The Kes Website and the pages Voyager Timeline, Episode Guide and Voyager Maps for further information.

Good lord! That’s amazing that you? Or someone calculated all of that, I never would have been able to do that.

 

[Ragitsu]

Voyager doesn't take place inside Picard's Bubble of Perfection. People aren't expected to be perfect there, 5 minutes after they've been "taught the lesson".

Five minutes; a little over three months. Same diff?

However, okay, let's say that a full one-eighty on a deficiency of this nature is unrealistic over that time span (even for a main character in the positive future of Star Trek); why not have Neelix start to feel regretful sooner - say, one or one-point-five kilometers away from the crash site - and subsequently disclose the truth to Tuvok before any prompting is required? At least we would know he is making progress and we would also see how Tuvok handles the curveball of a quarter-truth after he has committed to a plan but before it is actually put into practice (presumably he still lets Neelix make the attempt).

 

[Timewalker]

You're talking about scriptwriters who forgot the existence of a BABY before the end of the episode in which she was introduced (the infamous Borg baby), and you expect them to give Neelix an epiphany in which he cures himself of his psychological hangups in a relatively short amount of time?

In real life there are people who struggle and see-saw with their personal ethics for years, even decades (speaking from personal experience). I can be a bit annoyed about inconsistent characters on a TV show from time to time (currently watching Merlin and the ethical lapses on that show were enough that somebody made a 45-minute YouTube analysis of them and only touched on the main ones).

But if the show is good enough and I'm not heavily invested in the annoying character, I can ignore it and not let it ruin my viewing experience (my Voyager favorites are Seven of Nine, Tom Paris, Harry Kim, the Doctor, and even with the few episodes she was in, I came to like Mezoti (after reading some fanfic stories that explored her character more fully).

 

[Lynx]

Twenty-odd episodes per season and fifty-two weeks in a year? Yeah...chances are, there isn't always exactly one week of actual "Voyager time" between each episode.

Question: had Tuvok been given the full skinny, would he have shared that information with the others?

I doubt it.

But at least Neelix hade come clean and don't looked like an idiot in front of the others.

Good lord! That’s amazing that you? Or someone calculated all of that, I never would have been able to do that.

A twisted mind can do wonders!

it was just something I started with once. I bought the book Star Charts and found some inconsistencies in it. I also found some inconsistencies in the Voyager timeline itself, as it was presented in the series.

So I decided to clean it up and while doing so, I realized that it was possible to make a timeline for Voyager using the Stardates and a Stardate calculator which I found on the net.

Just a little hobby project I started which developed into something more.

I did have a lot of help from Win Eckert's Star trek Timeline and from the book Star Trek: Voyagers of imagination which puts the events in the Star Trek books into a possible timeline as well.

Still, it was a fun thing to do and I'm quite proud of it!

 

[Ragitsu]

But at least Neelix hade come clean and don't looked like an idiot in front of the others.

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Tuvok the only person privy to that information?

 

[Lynx]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't Tuvok the only person privy to that information?

That might be correct.
But if neelix had told the truth from the start, he didn't have to look like an idiot in front of Tuvok when the "models issue" was brought up.

 

[XweAponX]

That might be correct.
But if neelix had told the truth from the start, he didn't have to look like an idiot in front of Tuvok when the "models issue" was brought up.

but then the homage to Flight of the Pheonix never would have been made. And in the original film, the model issue is never brought up in the first place, It always comes up right about at the same time as it does in Rise- halfway in the middle. Somebody had found the magazines of model airplanes in the guys luggage…

actually, the other reason I like that episode, is because Neelix finally stands up to Tuvix’s needling. He doesn’t seem silly or inept at all at that point.

“you don’t have any feelings for me, but you have feelings against me” - One of his best lines in the show.

 

[Lynx]

but then the homage to Flight of the Pheonix never would have been made. And in the original film, the model issue is never brought up in the first place, It always comes up right about at the same time as it does in Rise- halfway in the middle. Somebody had found the magazines of model airplanes in the guys luggage…

actually, the other reason I like that episode, is because Neelix finally stands up to Tuvix’s needling. He doesn’t seem silly or inept at all at that point.

“you don’t have any feelings for me, but you have feelings against me” - One of his best lines in the show.

Unfortunately I haven't seen "The Flight Of The Phoenix" so I can't comment about it.

But I agree with you about Neelix standing up against Tuvok.

What sometimes surprised me with Tuvok was that he, as a Vulcan should be in control of his emotions.

But sometimes he did show negative emotions against others, particularily Neelix.
OK, Neelix could be highly annoying to Tuvok sometimes but still....
Maybe some Vulcans find it more difficult to hide and surpress emotions than other.
No criticizm as such from me to Tuvok or Neelix. I like them both!

 

[XweAponX]

Unfortunately I haven't seen "The Flight Of The Phoenix" so I can't comment about it.

too bad, it’s one of the classic movies of all Hollywood.

Even the 2004 remake has its moments, but the guy who directed that later remake was a real piece of work. Real mean Director…