Rise of the Planet of the Apes - Discussion/Review

[Pauln6]

I agree that this was a much better movie than the Tim Burton version. That was ok but it was a glossy, camp effort that was in no way related to the original premise. It was more like an episode of the Twilight Zone.

I haven't actually seen the original sequel/prequel that this movie reimagined but I spotted lots of nods to plot elements from movies 1 -3 that I have actually seen (it was a nice touch to see a Heston movie playing on the TV too). There were some silly parts such as the apes seeming to multiply by a factor of about ten all of a sudden, 'normal' apes acting with unusual tactical awareness, and the aforementioned sudden acquisition of manual skills. Still, they clearly laid out the path for at least one potential sequel - it was obvious and yet a clever way to reintroduce the dynamic from the earlier movies.

I will say though that I really hope that US animal research has higher standards than we see in this movie. And FYI - if you are going to experiment on an ape, avoid the one who looks like an ape serial killer.

 

[JD]

I've noticed that playing scenes from other movies with deceased franchise stars seems to be the big thing for cameos now. They did the same thing with Bill Bixby in Courtship of Eddie's Father in The Incredible Hulk.

 

[Samurai8472]

A from me. Sensational and emotive, a very full-blooded movie in its own right and an astounding leap forward in terms of the use of effects. I don't recall a single real see-the-join moment, though Caesar does seem remarkably athlretic even for a chimp.

Saw the movie. Loved it. The best part?

Spoiler: spoiler

Caesar yells "Nooooo!!!!" at the jerk human at the ape zoo. When he spoke everyone in the theatre gasped. One guy yelled, "what the fuck?" I take it this was the reaction in most theatres.

Yeah, I think it was (to varying degrees, I suppose). It was also one of the few instances I've seen of

Spoiler: the movie

a character shouting "Nooooo!!!!" in a movie

where it doesn't just seem ridiculous.

"What is Episode III?"

It's going to eclipse Episode III's moment and become the new internet meme

 

[Kegg]

I've noticed that playing scenes from other movies with deceased franchise stars seems to be the big thing for cameos now.

True. But obviously they would have had Heston in the movie were he still alive (as he was for Burton's remake). Having a movie with that actor play on the screen makes the same wink and nod at the audience even post mortem, as it were.

 

[davejames]

If this new series continues long enough (or jumps forward in time often enough), I'd love to see how they end up evolving these apes towards a more humanoid appearance.

I doubt they'll ever retell the original story again, but it would be cool to at least get a glimpse of that future world again in a flashforward.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well, the movie already established that the virus/cure is passed on genetics (Caesar got it through his mother, not injection.) It's possible it could also "accelerate" evolutionary traits over the course of the millenia suggested to pass in the 1969 version of the movie between when Icarus lifted off and then crashed back on Earth while also de-evolving humans a bit (rendering them incapable of talking or grasping more complicated things.)

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

Regardless whether he realized there was something wrong with Lithgow's character or not, perhaps he was just an asshole.

Well duh! If he weren't an asshole, they wouldn't have cast David Hewlett!

I love that Dr. McKay is in this movie, especially because every time he appears, something awful happens to him: Caesar spooks his kids; John Lithgow damages his car; Caesar beats the shit out of him; he gets infected blood coughed on his face; and when Caesar first escapes and goes back to the house, I think he lands on McKay's car. (I can't imagine any non-Stargate Atlantis fans had as much fun as I did.)

When the guy was exposed to it during the botched MRI with the test ape, doesn't seem likely they would've taken the guy, put him isolation, and done tests and observations on him given the uncertainties of the virus?

Yeah. Bad scientists. It would be one thing if they did test him and he seemed absolutely fine and only started displaying symptoms later but he seemed to be wheezing pretty bad immediately after being exposed.

But who could play The Hest?

Josh Brolin?

Considering their very different political affiliations, that would be very ironic.

On the nitpick side of things, how the hell did The Corporation stay so ignorant that James Franco had Caesar? After John Lithgow ruined McKay's car and Caesar kicked McKay's ass, shouldn't questions have been asked like "why the hell do you have an ape at home anyway?" An investigation would quickly reveal that Franco worked for a Corporation which experimented on apes, and none too quickly he'd be in a position where he'd end up fired. But instead, no one questions the ape, word never gets back to The Corporation and he continues to work for them until he decides to quit. Seemed a bit odd.

It seemed like no one else besides that one friendly ape handler even knew that Bright Eyes was pregnant. Caesar was strictly off-the-books and no one in the company would have any reason to suspect that he came from there. Thus, it wouldn't be a company matter, merely a case of Franco posessing an unlicensed exotic animal.

The other issue for me is, that while the medical experimentation and virus angle certainly plays out fairly believably, and works pretty well on it's own terms, I can't help but feel it's a bit too... ordinary and mundane an explanation for what we see in the classic movie.

I'm no continuity nut or anything (and have only really seen the original movie), but this just doesn't have the same iconic power of humanity being wiped out by nuclear armageddon, and apes evolving to be the dominant species in their place.

Yeah.

 

[Pauln6]

I think modern viewers would be surprised to find out just how little action there was in the original - I can't recall a single explosion! The backdrop of the civil rights movement gave that movie a poignancy that would be lost on modern audiences, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I suppose that whatever message they intend to tell in the new version will be reasonably current.

I'm hoping that they stick with the mute humans - one of the things I disliked most about Burton's remake was just how civlised the humans were - the heroine was articulate, clean, wore make-up, and had highlighted hair. I suppose in a way, that does speak to the superficial attitudes of modern audiences and their desire to see pretty people rather than a realistic story.

They did exactly the same thing with the Matrix sequels. In the first movie the 'real' world was grimy but in the sequel the women looked as glossy as they did inside the idealised Matrix, which p*ssed all over the point about wanting real life over artifice. And the Andromeda Strain remake replaced our dumpy, epileptic lesbian scientist (one of my favourite movie heroines alongside Pam Ferris' hippy midwife in Children of Men) with thin, beautiful, and improbably young scientists - and guess what - it sucked.

I would prefer it if they give some of the supporting astronauts a bit more to do in any sequel though. Although Taylor's isolation was important to the plot of the original so that the audience could share his experiences, the modern audience has a better idea of what is going on and I think it would be nice to build up the role of the other humans if possible (and maybe don't kill the woman in the opening scene - lol). Presumably they could still keep the underground mutants as part of the plot even with the virus plot.

 

[Trekker4747]

Heston's mute cell-mate in the original was hardly the model of "humans treated like animals" look. She was all clean, shaved and looked like she just came from a modeling session.

 

[Pauln6]

Lol well yeah, she probably had shaved legs and armpits but she didn't have crimped hair and lip gloss. She didn't look like she'd come from a modelling session though - she had straggly hair and she looked dirty and sweaty. Still, if that's how you like your models, more power to ya!

 

[Morfius]

if the virus gives humans altzheimer's, I could easily see the members of the military pushing the button in their demetia

 

[DarthPipes]

I think modern viewers would be surprised to find out just how little action there was in the original - I can't recall a single explosion! The backdrop of the civil rights movement gave that movie a poignancy that would be lost on modern audiences, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I suppose that whatever message they intend to tell in the new version will be reasonably current.

I'm hoping that they stick with the mute humans - one of the things I disliked most about Burton's remake was just how civlised the humans were - the heroine was articulate, clean, wore make-up, and had highlighted hair. I suppose in a way, that does speak to the superficial attitudes of modern audiences and their desire to see pretty people rather than a realistic story.

They did exactly the same thing with the Matrix sequels. In the first movie the 'real' world was grimy but in the sequel the women looked as glossy as they did inside the idealised Matrix, which p*ssed all over the point about wanting real life over artifice. And the Andromeda Strain remake replaced our dumpy, epileptic lesbian scientist (one of my favourite movie heroines alongside Pam Ferris' hippy midwife in Children of Men) with thin, beautiful, and improbably young scientists - and guess what - it sucked.

I would prefer it if they give some of the supporting astronauts a bit more to do in any sequel though. Although Taylor's isolation was important to the plot of the original so that the audience could share his experiences, the modern audience has a better idea of what is going on and I think it would be nice to build up the role of the other humans if possible (and maybe don't kill the woman in the opening scene - lol). Presumably they could still keep the underground mutants as part of the plot even with the virus plot.

Yeah, you're right about the original. It was not an action film. Only two sequences I can really think of. The "human hunt" in the beginning and Taylor's first attempt to escape from the apes. It's a thinking man's science fiction. More interested in ideas and issues. The action came in the later POTA sequels.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

So you don't believe the original POTA films were a closed time loop?

No, Cornelius and Zira changed everything. Their evolved baby created a different planet of the apes that happened much earlier than in the original timeline.

How much of that do we really know, though? If all we know of the 'original' timeline is through dialogue after the fact, isn't it possible that there really is a time loop?

 

[Gojira]

I think modern viewers would be surprised to find out just how little action there was in the original - I can't recall a single explosion! The backdrop of the civil rights movement gave that movie a poignancy that would be lost on modern audiences, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I suppose that whatever message they intend to tell in the new version will be reasonably current.

I'm hoping that they stick with the mute humans - one of the things I disliked most about Burton's remake was just how civlised the humans were - the heroine was articulate, clean, wore make-up, and had highlighted hair. I suppose in a way, that does speak to the superficial attitudes of modern audiences and their desire to see pretty people rather than a realistic story.

They did exactly the same thing with the Matrix sequels. In the first movie the 'real' world was grimy but in the sequel the women looked as glossy as they did inside the idealised Matrix, which p*ssed all over the point about wanting real life over artifice. And the Andromeda Strain remake replaced our dumpy, epileptic lesbian scientist (one of my favourite movie heroines alongside Pam Ferris' hippy midwife in Children of Men) with thin, beautiful, and improbably young scientists - and guess what - it sucked.

I would prefer it if they give some of the supporting astronauts a bit more to do in any sequel though. Although Taylor's isolation was important to the plot of the original so that the audience could share his experiences, the modern audience has a better idea of what is going on and I think it would be nice to build up the role of the other humans if possible (and maybe don't kill the woman in the opening scene - lol). Presumably they could still keep the underground mutants as part of the plot even with the virus plot.

Yeah, you're right about the original. It was not an action film. Only two sequences I can really think of. The "human hunt" in the beginning and Taylor's first attempt to escape from the apes. It's a thinking man's science fiction. More interested in ideas and issues. The action came in the later POTA sequels.

This is why the original is a sci-fi classic!

 

[Trekker4747]

Lol well yeah, she probably had shaved legs and armpits but she didn't have crimped hair and lip gloss. She didn't look like she'd come from a modelling session though - she had straggly hair and she looked dirty and sweaty. Still, if that's how you like your models, more power to ya!

Well, maybe not a modeling session but she certainly didn't look like a "human treated as an animal." Which a problem all movies have that try to present this premise, Battlefield Earth is another example (though a poor one) if humanity was on the scraps of of survival, on the brink of extinction and a subjugated species women would hardly be taking the time to get their tanning sessions and to shave their legs.

I mean this:

Is not a creature that's been treated like nothing more than an animal in a zoo for her entire life.

And really isn't that much different than this:

Okay, maybe the blond just had her hair washed and for some reason was given botox injections to her lips or something but overall the two women are hardly that much contrasting from one another.

 

[Vendikarr]

So you don't believe the original POTA films were a closed time loop?

No, Cornelius and Zira changed everything. Their evolved baby created a different planet of the apes that happened much earlier than in the original timeline.

How much of that do we really know, though? If all we know of the 'original' timeline is through dialogue after the fact, isn't it possible that there really is a time loop?

The lawgiver scene at the end of 'Battle' showed the Lawgiver talking to human and ape children, implying some level of equality. The Lawgiver as indicated in the original Planet of the Apes had messages about distrusting humans.

To me this implies that Cornelius and Zira started a new timeline with their trip to the past, and not a time loop.

 

[RJDiogenes]

I think modern viewers would be surprised to find out just how little action there was in the original - I can't recall a single explosion! The backdrop of the civil rights movement gave that movie a poignancy that would be lost on modern audiences, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I suppose that whatever message they intend to tell in the new version will be reasonably current.

I'm hoping that they stick with the mute humans - one of the things I disliked most about Burton's remake was just how civlised the humans were - the heroine was articulate, clean, wore make-up, and had highlighted hair. I suppose in a way, that does speak to the superficial attitudes of modern audiences and their desire to see pretty people rather than a realistic story.

They did exactly the same thing with the Matrix sequels. In the first movie the 'real' world was grimy but in the sequel the women looked as glossy as they did inside the idealised Matrix, which p*ssed all over the point about wanting real life over artifice. And the Andromeda Strain remake replaced our dumpy, epileptic lesbian scientist (one of my favourite movie heroines alongside Pam Ferris' hippy midwife in Children of Men) with thin, beautiful, and improbably young scientists - and guess what - it sucked.

I would prefer it if they give some of the supporting astronauts a bit more to do in any sequel though. Although Taylor's isolation was important to the plot of the original so that the audience could share his experiences, the modern audience has a better idea of what is going on and I think it would be nice to build up the role of the other humans if possible (and maybe don't kill the woman in the opening scene - lol). Presumably they could still keep the underground mutants as part of the plot even with the virus plot.

Yeah, you're right about the original. It was not an action film. Only two sequences I can really think of. The "human hunt" in the beginning and Taylor's first attempt to escape from the apes. It's a thinking man's science fiction. More interested in ideas and issues. The action came in the later POTA sequels.

This is why the original is a sci-fi classic!

I completely agree.

No, Cornelius and Zira changed everything. Their evolved baby created a different planet of the apes that happened much earlier than in the original timeline.

How much of that do we really know, though? If all we know of the 'original' timeline is through dialogue after the fact, isn't it possible that there really is a time loop?

The lawgiver scene at the end of 'Battle' showed the Lawgiver talking to human and ape children, implying some level of equality. The Lawgiver as indicated in the original Planet of the Apes had messages about distrusting humans.

To me this implies that Cornelius and Zira started a new timeline with their trip to the past, and not a time loop.

On the other hand, there's a couple of thousand years between the Lawgiver we saw in Battle and the Lawgiver quoted in Planet. We don't know that it is the same guy and, even if it is, we certainly know how a religion can change and darken over a couple of millennia, so MLB does have a point.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

No, Cornelius and Zira changed everything. Their evolved baby created a different planet of the apes that happened much earlier than in the original timeline.

How much of that do we really know, though? If all we know of the 'original' timeline is through dialogue after the fact, isn't it possible that there really is a time loop?

The lawgiver scene at the end of 'Battle' showed the Lawgiver talking to human and ape children, implying some level of equality.

So you don't think the final scene with Caesar's statue had any meaning, then?

 

[DarthPipes]

No, Cornelius and Zira changed everything. Their evolved baby created a different planet of the apes that happened much earlier than in the original timeline.

How much of that do we really know, though? If all we know of the 'original' timeline is through dialogue after the fact, isn't it possible that there really is a time loop?

The lawgiver scene at the end of 'Battle' showed the Lawgiver talking to human and ape children, implying some level of equality. The Lawgiver as indicated in the original Planet of the Apes had messages about distrusting humans.

To me this implies that Cornelius and Zira started a new timeline with their trip to the past, and not a time loop.

I read at the end of that film the director said that Caesar's statue sheds tears of joy but the screenwriter felt that they were tears because he knew the alliance would ultimately fail.

The end of Conquest of the Planet of the Apes was supposed to be much darker and they had originally planned a much darker Battle of the Planet of the Apes with Caesar as a Hitler-like figure. They finally decided to loosen up a little bit. The POTA's series is a very dark one when you think about it.

 

[Trekker4747]

Well it is about the fall of man by his own hands followed by his future subjugation by lower life forms.