RIP Amy Winehouse

[Yeoman Randi]

While I agree with you two. She left rehab twice. That's were I draw the line. She got help, but she didn't want it. Its on her...

And, so... what? She deserved to die because of it?

No, but i no longer consider her a victim of addiction. She got help, but she refused it. It was a conscious decision.

If it were so easy to stay sober do you think there would be as many people as there are that go back to drugs?

PKtrekgirl is exactly right. Certain drugs fuck with your mind. With the actual chemistry of your brain. Your brain believes it needs the drug. Your brain tells you you have to take it. This is not psychological. These are actual physiological changes that take place in your brain.

Trust me. It takes a lot more than just wanting to stay drug free.

And like someone here said, when you are a person in the spotlight,admirers literally throw drugs at you. It happened to me, and believe me when i say i was at the bottom level a performer can be. People will do anything, say anything and give you anything to make you happy or to 'show affection'. I honestly can't understand how anyone with any amount of fame (particularly in the music world) can stay sober. Those people are gods if you ask me.

Addiction is a fucking nightmare. Like that old television commercial use to say, "No one says "I want to be an addict when i grow up."

I hope Amy Winehouse's family can find peace. I know my family still hasn't accepted my beautiful nephew's death from drugs. I wish he knew how many lives he touched and how many people still mourn his loss. He never knew what he meant to us all.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ That's another good point: celebrities in general, but I think rock stars in particular, have drugs pushed at them all the time - by well meaning fans wanting to give them a gift or by groupies/hangers-on wanting to hang with a rock star. Sometimes even bandmates, managers and the like push drugs at them because they don't want the rock star to take time off from cash generation by checking into rehab for months at a time, or because they want the non-stop party to never end.

Celebrities are surrounded all the time by people who do NOT have their best interests at heart, but who instead want to get a piece of them - plying them with drugs, if necessary.

Very difficult situation if you are trying to get or stay sober.

 

[Kestra]

It's difficult even if you are surrounded by people who support you in a sober environment.

 

[Colonel Green]

People don't get that you're a victim to addiction. You don't get addicted by choice. You can't pull yourself out of it, you truly need someone else to do that.

Then they all make those insensible remarks like "Get your ass up" or "He/she totally deserved it!".

While I agree with you two. She left rehab twice. That's were I draw the line. She got help, but she didn't want it. Its on her...

It's shocking, isn't it? People go to rehab, the staff waves the magic addiction banishing wand, but then they STILL go back to drugs!

Clearly they WANTED to die!

 

[Haggis and tatties]

I'm fairly sure the same is true of the UK, you can't be detained in medical care unless a court has ordered it.

And i can tell you from personal experience that its almost impossible to get these orders for a adult unless they commit a criminal act to warrant their detention.....as we found out in our own sad case some years ago.....Its seems family members watching helplessly as a close family member head into the abyss while fighting all help, and appealing to everybody from social works, police and doctors, are unfortunately not evidence that a adult is a danger to themselves..... or so we were told on numerous occasion by all those stated above, and that they could do nothing to help, and unfortunately while in this long long process of trying desperately to get somebody to help the inevitable happened.

So no doubt even with all the money she had her family's hands were tied in one way or another.......all very very sad and a heartbreaking affair.

 

[arch101]

Death by Misadventure

 

[Yeoman Randi]

I'm fairly sure the same is true of the UK, you can't be detained in medical care unless a court has ordered it.

And i can tell you from personal experience that its almost impossible to get these orders for a adult unless they commit a criminal act to warrant their detention.....as we found out in our own sad case some years ago.....Its seems family members watching helplessly as a close family member head into the abyss while fighting all help, and appealing to everybody from social works, police and doctors, are unfortunately not evidence that a adult is a danger to themselves..... or so we were told on numerous occasion by all those stated above, and that they could do nothing to help, and unfortunately while in this long long process of trying desperately to get somebody to help the inevitable happened.

So no doubt even with all the money she had her family's hands were tied in one way or another.......all very very sad and a heartbreaking affair.

This is exactly what happened in my nephew's case. If you are "an adult", your family's hands are tied.

 

[1001001]

Addiction is a terrible thing. So often, friends and family can only watch helplessly.

I read something that described Amy's life as a train wreck in slow motion. I used that exact phrase two years ago to describe watching my sister die (from alcoholism at age 38).

Professionally, I work with addiction every day. I can understand people's judgment and skepticism. It is infuriating at times. I can completely understand the impulse to grab them by the collar and shake some sense in to them.

But if people could just "stop", I think most of them would. It's not that simple. It's a horrible thing, being a slave to a chemical. And so many horrible things go with it. So much suffering.

In the end, I have only sympathy for those who suffer, and empathy for their families and friends.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Addiction is a terrible thing. So often, friends and family can only watch helplessly.

I read something that described Amy's life as a train wreck in slow motion. I used that exact phrase two years ago to describe watching my sister die (from alcoholism at age 38).

Professionally, I work with addiction every day. I can understand people's judgment and skepticism. It is infuriating at times. I can completely understand the impulse to grab them by the collar and shake some sense in to them.

But if people could just "stop", I think most of them would. It's not that simple. It's a horrible thing, being a slave to a chemical. And so many horrible things go with it. So much suffering.

In the end, I have only sympathy for those who suffer, and empathy for their families and friends.

Yep.

It's like telling someone to just "get over" being depressed, or "stop" having cancer. Makes the person saying it feel like they're being supportive and helpful, but in the end it does nothing but make the sufferer feel worse.

Addiction is a disease, it's not just "mind over matter." And, as has been pointed out elsewhere, celebrities have additional factors that make it harder on them: enough money to get anything they want, and legions of sycophants who probably don't have their best interests at heart.

There is obviously some willpower involved in overcoming addiction, but that's hardly the whole story, and people need to recognize that.

 

[1001001]

As we say, the "willpower" part is being willing to take your medicine (therapy, 12-step, relapse prevention, meds, etc.).

I do a group on Thursdays called "The Hijacked Brain" which came out of a documentary series by Bill Moyers. It speaks very eloquently to the "brain disease model". I have come to accept that addiction is like diabetes. A chronic disorder that can be minimized by behavior changes and monitoring. BUT...if a patient "relapsed" with birthday cake on a Sunday afternoon, no doctor would kick them out of their practice.

The people I work with (homeless veterans with dual-diagnosis) have lost so much. Why would anyone "choose" that?

 

[ITL]

Addiction is a terrible thing. So often, friends and family can only watch helplessly.

I read something that described Amy's life as a train wreck in slow motion. I used that exact phrase two years ago to describe watching my sister die (from alcoholism at age 38).

Professionally, I work with addiction every day. I can understand people's judgment and skepticism. It is infuriating at times. I can completely understand the impulse to grab them by the collar and shake some sense in to them.

But if people could just "stop", I think most of them would. It's not that simple. It's a horrible thing, being a slave to a chemical. And so many horrible things go with it. So much suffering.

In the end, I have only sympathy for those who suffer, and empathy for their families and friends.

Yep.

It's like telling someone to just "get over" being depressed, or "stop" having cancer. Makes the person saying it feel like they're being supportive and helpful, but in the end it does nothing but make the sufferer feel worse.

Addiction is a disease, it's not just "mind over matter." And, as has been pointed out elsewhere, celebrities have additional factors that make it harder on them: enough money to get anything they want, and legions of sycophants who probably don't have their best interests at heart.

There is obviously some willpower involved in overcoming addiction, but that's hardly the whole story, and people need to recognize that.

As we say, the "willpower" part is being willing to take your medicine (therapy, 12-step, relapse prevention, meds, etc.).

I do a group on Thursdays called "The Hijacked Brain" which came out of a documentary series by Bill Moyers. It speaks very eloquently to the "brain disease model". I have come to accept that addiction is like diabetes. A chronic disorder that can be minimized by behavior changes and monitoring. BUT...if a patient "relapsed" with birthday cake on a Sunday afternoon, no doctor would kick them out of their practice.

The people I work with (homeless veterans with dual-diagnosis) have lost so much. Why would anyone "choose" that?

Well said - I couldn't agree more. A cousin of mine died of a heroin overdose quite a few years back, and even though the family never gave up on her and tried to help as much as they could, she just couldn't kick the habit. She was 19 when she died.

I have nothing but sympathy for Amy Winehouses' family and friends, and her death is a tragic loss.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Addiction is a terrible thing. So often, friends and family can only watch helplessly.

I read something that described Amy's life as a train wreck in slow motion. I used that exact phrase two years ago to describe watching my sister die (from alcoholism at age 38).

Professionally, I work with addiction every day. I can understand people's judgment and skepticism. It is infuriating at times. I can completely understand the impulse to grab them by the collar and shake some sense in to them.

But if people could just "stop", I think most of them would. It's not that simple. It's a horrible thing, being a slave to a chemical. And so many horrible things go with it. So much suffering.

In the end, I have only sympathy for those who suffer, and empathy for their families and friends.

Yep.

It's like telling someone to just "get over" being depressed, or "stop" having cancer. Makes the person saying it feel like they're being supportive and helpful, but in the end it does nothing but make the sufferer feel worse.

Addiction is a disease, it's not just "mind over matter." And, as has been pointed out elsewhere, celebrities have additional factors that make it harder on them: enough money to get anything they want, and legions of sycophants who probably don't have their best interests at heart.

There is obviously some willpower involved in overcoming addiction, but that's hardly the whole story, and people need to recognize that.

As we say, the "willpower" part is being willing to take your medicine (therapy, 12-step, relapse prevention, meds, etc.).

I do a group on Thursdays called "The Hijacked Brain" which came out of a documentary series by Bill Moyers. It speaks very eloquently to the "brain disease model". I have come to accept that addiction is like diabetes. A chronic disorder that can be minimized by behavior changes and monitoring. BUT...if a patient "relapsed" with birthday cake on a Sunday afternoon, no doctor would kick them out of their practice.

The people I work with (homeless veterans with dual-diagnosis) have lost so much. Why would anyone "choose" that?

Well said - I couldn't agree more. A cousin of mine died of a heroin overdose quite a few years back, and even though the family never gave up on her and tried to help as much as they could, she just couldn't kick the habit. She was 19 when she died.

I have nothing but sympathy for Amy Winehouses' family and friends, and her death is a tragic loss.

I had a friend who completely ruined his life thanks to drugs. He made it into his 40s without ever having any trouble with the law. He had a good job, stable career, his own house, etc. Then, he got this girlfriend who turned him on to crack. He's been in and out of prison since, having resorted to armed robbery to feed their habit--after selling off basically everything he owned.

I honestly don't know what's become of him since he was let out of prison last. All his friends and family got burned by trying to help him--mostly by him stealing from them.

I hope he's clean now but I wouldn't count on it.

It's just horrible to see what it does to people, and how hard it is to stop.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

I had a friend who completely ruined his life thanks to drugs. He made it into his 40s without ever having any trouble with the law. He had a good job, stable career, his own house, etc. Then, he got this girlfriend who turned him on to crack. He's been in and out of prison since, having resorted to armed robbery to feed their habit--after selling off basically everything he owned.

I honestly don't know what's become of him since he was let out of prison last. All his friends and family got burned by trying to help him--mostly by him stealing from them.

I hope he's clean now but I wouldn't count on it.

It's just horrible to see what it does to people, and how hard it is to stop.

This is one of the most harrowing things I have read in a long time. This doesn't sound like your typical 'at risk' individual getting hooked on drugs - this sounds like a normal, middle-class guy who made a single mistake that has cost him everything he ever accomplished up until that point.

Now, who in their right minds would make that trade willingly? Certainly not anyone who is still at all capable of making rational decisions. That's for sure.

And I also agree about what you said earlier - that this is akin to telling someone with chronic depression to just 'snap out of it'...or telling someone to just 'stop' having cancer. I am one who has a physiological pre-disposition to chronic depression, and it's nothing I would wish on anyone. I do what I can - take my pills, go running regularly to release those endorphins, try to eat right, try to get enough sleep (although this is very difficult to do when one is depressed - insomnia is a huge problem) etc. I don't even watch the news, because I was finding it to be something that was bringing me down...and the trade-off was just not worth it.

But even with all that, I still have days where I am really down...sometimes for a reason, but oftentimes for no reason at all. Even when you control everything you know to control, sometimes it just doesn't matter.

And it only makes it worse when someone tells me to 'snap out of it' or makes some flip and hurtful remark, like I just need to 'get over it'. If only it were that easy.

For addicts, I would imagine it's even worse, because in some cases, there is a physical need for the drug as well.

For those on the outside, the addiction of a loved one looks like a slow-mo train wreck. But for the addict, it must look like a prison cell that they cannot escape from.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

This doesn't sound like your typical 'at risk' individual getting hooked on drugs - this sounds like a normal, middle-class guy who made a single mistake that has cost him everything he ever accomplished up until that point.

Yeah, well that's not unlikely given that most addicts are of the "normal" type rather than what you call "typical." That Robert's friend was older when he first got involved with drugs is about the only thing there that may be unusual.

well, my bad then. but either way, over here, there is a law of compulsory rehab for addicts.

Our "weird laws" here include a bill of rights as part of our Constitution.

I've dealt with addicts and addiction in several capacities through a good deal of my life. I have nothing but empathy for Winehouse and great sympathy for those around her to whom this is a personal, human tragedy rather than the little charge of conversational adrenaline that it is for the chattering class.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

This doesn't sound like your typical 'at risk' individual getting hooked on drugs - this sounds like a normal, middle-class guy who made a single mistake that has cost him everything he ever accomplished up until that point.

Yeah, well that's not unlikely given that most addicts are of the "normal" type rather than what you call "typical." That Robert's friend was older when he first got involved with drugs is about the only thing there that may be unusual.

I don't know, Dennis.

I have read and heard a lot about 'at risk' groups over the years, when it comes to crack addiction. And although I did not deal with crack addicts in a professional sense, my personal experience has borne this out - that certain groups are more 'at risk' than others. Particularly certain socioeconomic groups.

For a long time, I did a lot of (non-professional) work in the prison system, and the majority of crack addicts I met there had more separating them from you and I than just age.....

I suppose your mileage may vary..but that was my experience.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

You didn't say "crack addicts," but generalized about "your typical 'at risk' individual getting hooked on drugs."

 

[Trelane]

To Prime Minister Harper & All Provincial Premiers:

I'd Like To Respectfully Request That All Our Flags Be Lowered To Half-Mast In Sympathy For Oslo's Losses.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

To Prime Minister Harper & All Provincial Premiers:

I'd Like To Respectfully Request That All Our Flags Be Lowered To Half-Mast In Sympathy For Oslo's Losses.

The Oslo thread is thataway. *points*

 

[PKTrekGirl]

You didn't say "crack addicts," but generalized about "your typical 'at risk' individual getting hooked on drugs."

Well, the post I was specifically referencing was about a guy who until his 40's had been a pretty straight arrow, and had only then become a crack addict - ultimately losing a successful career and house to crack addiction...and resorting to robbery and other criminal behaviors.

And in my view, this is a fairly atypical occurrence. I just don't think about a 40 year old with a successful career and home as being in any of the typical 'at risk' groups for crack addiction.

Obviously, addiction in general can happen at any age or in any socioeconomic group - plenty of people become alcoholics, for example, later in life.

Sorry if that was unclear.

 

[TheSeeker]

Ironically, the family seems to think it was her sudden cessation of drinking that may have killed her: link

At present the 'Rehab' singer's cause of death is unknown but it is possible her decision to try and quit booze completely after years of heavy drinking could have caused her body a shock or seizure which killed her at her home in Camden, north London, last Saturday.


A source said: "Abstinence gave her body such a fright they thought it was eventually the cause of her death."

If this turns out to be true it will just be that much sadder.